From :  Brian Kobashigawa, 75610,1221   #51579


Caught the tail end of thread concerning seeds. One source of "survival
seeds" is a company called Nito-Pak Preparedness Center, 151 N. Main St.,
Heber, UT 84032 (800)-866-4876. Have an item in their catalog called
Survival Garden Seeds. Description says that item will store for a min of
4+ years, has 15 different high yield seed varieties (up to 5 acres worth),
comes in a nitogen packed #10 can with detailed instructions. Item #5600
$22.95 + shipping.

For $3 you can get their catalog and one year of updates which has
everthing from 3 mo., 6 mo., and 1 year food storage reserve units; low
moisture & freeze-dried foods; 72-hour emergency kits and supplies; water
storage, filter & sanitation supplies; first-aid and trauma kits and
supplies; other preparedness and survival supplies like grain mills, MREs,
emergency lighting and heating supplies, knives, etc., and a quality
selection of preparedness books and videos.

**************************************************************************
From :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      #34899


I thought I'd mention this for those who are interested.  At any larger
sized health food store you can pick up seeds for wheat grass.  This stuff
will grow within 7 days to a harvestable size.  It will grow in soil or
hydroponically without much problem.  It's relevant because either juicing
(you need a special juicer) or just chewing this stuff (you want the juice,
don't swallow the pulp) has miraculous effects.  It would be great to live
on during a 'survival' period.  Ann Wigmore, the wheat grass guru, even
changed her hair back from grey to its original color with it.  It's
probably the closest thing on Earth to the miracle elixir.

One book even said that "Kirlian photography shows that the intensity of
wheat grass is so strong that one benefits just by being in the same room
with it."  It may not be the most palatable option, but in lean times,
you'll get your nutrition and you won't die of malnourishment.

A few years back one lady ran cross country living on nothing but grass and
weeds.  It beats eating bugs if times get bad!

I would recommend that if anybody wants to pursue this option, get a book
on it.  It'll be at the same place you get the seeds.  Read up on it and
get familiar before you need to.  It's a damned good thing to have in
reserve.  Ann Wigmore books are the best to go with.

*************************************************************************
From :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      #35035

>>  >> (you want the juice, don't swallow the pulp)

  Why not? <<

I'm not sure exactly.  The enzymes and nutrients you need are in the juice.
 I think it was something about the protien levels being too intense and
doing more harm than good.

>>  Is there one in particular you can recommend? <<

This is really my wife's area more than mine so I'm not that familiar with
what's out, especially recently.  It would be best to browse through what's
available.  Wigmore is the preferred author I would imagine although there
may be something even better out.

********************************************************************
From :  :Paul S. Cilwa/SL, 74362,2653   #35025

>>  Ann Wigmore, the wheat grass guru, even changed her hair back from grey
to its original color with it.

By drinking it or shampooing with it? Please answer! THIS IS URGENT!

***************************************************************************
From :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      #35032

Paul,

The hair color changing was by drinking it.  I'm not sure how long it takes
but you have to do it consistently.  My wife took one drink one time and
got a massive headache.  The stuff WORKS as far as cleaning out toxins.
You have to start slow.  Again, it's consistent use that does it.  Read
what you can find by Ann Wigmore.  Her books should be at any health food
store that has a good book selection.

After 7 years of consistent use, it's supposed to even rebuild damaged
cartiledge.

*********************************************************************
From :  :Paul S. Cilwa/SL, 74362,2653   #35026

>> It beats eating bugs if times get bad!

Actually, the taboo against eating bugs is not global. A number of human
cultures eat beetles, various larva (they taste like shrimp), and locusts.
My personal feeling that cockroaches would also be nutrious, but be certain
you cook them well first as they carry a lot of germs to which we would be
susceptible (like tuberculosis).

***********************************************************************
From :  Rich Petke, 70003,5422          #47922

Preparing for the future is a complicated issue because it depends upon
what you are expecting to preserve (conserve).  Do you wish to ensure that
your current life style (whatever that is) is maintained or are you willing
to change your life style as necessary?

If you want to continue eating the foods you currently consume (variety
regardless of season, refined into end products, etc.), driving a car,
paying for services (medical, dental, cleaning, repairs), watching TV,
attending a church, etc., you will have to stockpile a lot of things and
spend a great deal of $s to become independent.  Your life style is highly
dependent on the society that we have created and you will basically have
to create your own private copy of our society.  Good luck.

If, on the other hand, you are willing to be a bit more flexible, then your
focus for preparing for the future will be a bit easier.  I suggest that
you start by examining the basic needs humans have for survival:  Food,
water, shelter, health, and love come to mind.

OK, so you will need a source of clean water.  How clean?  Perhaps a well
is the answer.  Perhaps not if you are depending upon electricity to power
a well pump.  Perhaps surface water will be OK if you have a stockpile of
water purification chemicals and/or equipment.  Now consider food.  Do you
really need to consume all of the types of food you currently eat, in the
quanity you currently eat?  What foods are available in your areas?  How
will you store them?

Remember, the coming earth changes do not necessarily mean the total
collapse of our society's infrastructure:  Some things we need (and some
things we don't need, like taxes) will still be around.  We will, however,
have shortages of many things and other things will just not be available
at all.  If there is one lesson we should learn from nature it is
evolution:  Those creatures that can adapt to new environments, survive -
those that can't become extinct.

My view is that everyone has to decide what is really important to them
(needs and wants) and then work out multiple plans for how to preserve
those things.  At the same time identify those things that are not really
necessary or that can be given up if push comes to shove.  Once you have
identified your core needs and wants, you should have a clear picture of
what you need to do.

The only aspect of the future that we can be sure about is that it will be
a change from the present.  How much of a change?  In what direction?  Good
questions.

Think how much the life styles of Americans living in the southern states
changed during the 1860s.  Talk about change for everyone.

*********************************************************************
From :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      #49500

>> True about thr purity of R-O water but it also wastes three gallons to
make one of processed R-O water, if memory serves. <<

I had forgotten about that.  They told us about this minor technicality
when we got our Culligan system.  My wife keeps reminding me of this...
But I'm sure the discarded water can be used for other things, depending on
the impurities that were in it to begin with.  I.e. if you're filtering out
sarin discarded by the Arabs you wouldn't necessarily want to use that
leftover water to tend your garden.

****************************************************************
From :  Paul S. Cilwa, 74362,2653       #49358

On the Grand Canyon trips I've taken, they use a simple pump-like filter.
The filter is resuable; it's some kind of ceramic and you just take it out,
wipe it off, and put it back. The boatmen said it would filter out stuff as
little as giardia bacteria and, of course, as big as river silt.

They are available at camping supply stores.

For a nice catalog of camping-type gear, try Campmor at PO Box 700-U,
Saddle River, NJ 07458-0700. It's printed on recycled paper, so you can ask
for it without guilt.

**********************************************************************
From :  Jeannie, 75773,1442             #49731

Hi Mark,
My husband and I just bought a "PUR" brand reverse osmosis watermaker for
our sailboat..we will have an 86 Gallon per day capacity,drawing only 8
amps when operating. Along wwith this system we purchased the "Water Fixer"
UV water sterilizer. The water first enters a 5 micron pre-filter to remove
suspended particles.Then moves to second filter containing activated
charcoal..to remove odors and improve taste.Second filter is rated at .5
microns so it also traps the fine particles including microorganisms such
as giardia and crytosporidium. Final stage..water enters stainless steel
disinfectant chamber where UV light,enclosed in a pure fused quartz
cylinder destroys any remaining microorganisms.

Hopefully, this equipment, along with our canopy being constructed with a
built in water-catcher will keep us clean and hydrated.

For the forum members "seriously" preparing for disaster..I would not
hesitate to lead them towards the hundreds of books written on
self-sufficiency for those of us preparing a circumnavigation, or just
"living aboard" sans shore power. They'll give you information on
everything from how to keep perishables  to surviving when :all our
fancy gold-plater systems go down 3,000 miles out. Also some Great books
written by people who have survived at sea for 72 days and longer in their
survival rafts.Some of these people did not even have time to grab their
abandon ship bags..however survived months with nothing but their wits. Now
try surviving..floating on neoprene coated nylon No EPIRB ..Flares.SSB.No
soil, water not potable..no neighbors around..no vegetation..just you in
your underware, the sea, the sky, and some mighty big fish.

Our entire "cruise" planning has centered on "survival and
self-sufficiency". Guess we've read so much about it over the past several
years , We plan on it being a way of life..not an option for disaster.

*****************************************************************









From :  Jeannie, 75773,1442             #49819

Water Fixer  is the name of the filter manufacturer.
Call West Marine  @1-800-538-0775 Do yourself a big favor and ask them to
send you their catalog. It's loaded with goodies. This filter runs $395.00
They also make a model 500 $295.00.
West Marine and Boat US are both great sources. Also..go to your local
loaded magazine rack..and pick up a copy of "Sail" magazine's 95' buyers
guide. It's chock full of these manufacturers and they will be more than
happy to send you their brochures.
Jeannie


From :  Mark Roberts, 74227,1642        #49545

>>For some reason I've always had schemes for condensing water.  I don't
know why.<<

I was talking with my business partner and we decided that the ultimate
water system would be a combination distiller and Reverse-Osmosis system.
The distiller removes heavy particulate, which helps keep the RO filters
clean and kills any viruses that are too small to be caught in the RO
filters.  The RO removes all the lethal stuff.  Between the two system, you
would get perfect water.


From :  Robert L. Anello, 73144,1445    #49533

>>Perhaps some other folks in the forum can add to this info-stockpile.<<

 RE: WATER PURIFIERS
 Personal-type water filters that will filter several gallons of water
before requiring cleaning or replacement of filters are available in the
better camping equipment supply stores.  They small and lightweight camping
and backpacking style purifiers which require hand pumping (no
electricity).  Most are made of sturdy and durable high-impact plastic and
some are of metal.

 Depending upon the micron rating of the filters, some of these water
purifiers are said to filter bacteria and viruses as well as dissolved
chemicals and minerals.

 Prices range from inexpensive ($30-40) to very expensive (>$200).

 Some of the names of these water purifiers are: First Need, MSR
Waterworks, PUR (4 different types with different micron ratings,
($50-$150), Sweetwater, Katadyn, RELAGS.

 I believe the Katadyn, and the RELAGS, purifiers also have an interior
silver coating to prevent the growth of bacteria on the filter itself.

 Depending upon the cloudiness or murkiness of the water to be purified,
some individuals report that many of these filters will filter 8-15 gallons
before cleaning the unit is required.  Most of these units are considered
to be easy to pump and fairly fast (1-2 quarts per minute).

From :  KEVIN E. SWANSON, 76022,2545    #49965

Hi Martha!

Here are some of the things i've done to prepare.

>> what are some of the things you would pack into a survival kit?<<

I have organized everything into plastic 18 gallon tubs (rubbermaid), that
can be purchased at walmart, target, pamida, etc...  This size works for me
because I have a full size pick up.  You will have to determine how much
space your own vehicle will carry, and right-size accordingly.

The tubs are catagorized as :  Food, Clothes, Cooking/camping gear, and
Shelter.

Food:  Just the typical; soup, spam, coffee, granola bars, peanut butter
(creamy :-)  canned vegetables, ramen noodles,etc....  Oh, and don't forget
the can opener!  I have 3 of them because I just know some poor soul will
forget theirs.  
I also have 2-5 gallon collapsable water containers, and ingredients for
making home made wine and beer ( should be a hot commodity on the barter
scene!)

Clothes:  Extra jeans, sweatshirts/t-shirts, underclothes (including long
underwear) shoes,towels, travel bag of toiletries, bible, frisbee, and deck
of cards.

Cooking/camping gear:  Just your basic camping cookout set with dish soup
and pot scrubbers.  Dish towles, rope for a clothes line, coffee pot,
lighters, measuring cup, water purification pills/filter, and zipperlock
food bags.

Shelter :  This tub has a couple of blankets and tarps ( for shelter or
covering the roof of my home ) more rope, small tool kit, first aid kit,
toilet paper, 8-pack of soap, 2 man dome tent, tent repair kit, first aid
book, 3 pairs leather palmed work gloves ( NOT the yellow fleece kind, for
digging through debris,chopping wood, etc.. ) and a hand axe.

I keep these in my garage along with my camp stove, a 4 person foldable
picinic table, port-a-potty, 2-5 gallon gas cans, MRE's, and sleeping bags.
 I keep them in the garage simply because if both my house and garage where
to collapse in a disaster, it would be easier to sift through the garage
debris rather than the house!
And, under ideal situations, can have everything loaded into the back of
the truck in about 2 minutes, maybe less if i'm rushed 

>> Would you be intersted in helping me compile a resource list of books
and other reading materials<<

Here's one for you.

Reader's Digest _BACK TO BASICS, How to learn and enjoy traditional
American skills_.  ISBN 0-89577-086-5 distributed by Random House, $26.

It covers a wide range of topics from building a cabin to living with
nature, water power, wind power, solar energy, making your house more
energy efficient, fish farming to herbal gardening, baking to preserving,
weaving, woodworking, broommaking, soapmaking, candlemaking, edible plants
for wilderness living, and a bunch more.  The book is a keeper!

I hope some of this is useful, and i'll be anxiously awaiting any ideas on
things I may have over looked.

Keep us *posted* and........ be prepared,


From :  Michael L. Hart, 76466,526      #50523

Just a thought. Could it be that we're making more work for ourselves than
necessary? A simple solution to handle MOST water problems (I don't know if
anyone can really clean chemically/nuclearly/biologically contaminated
water enough where I would drink it unless ABSOLUTELY necessary), is to
treat the water with chlorine, just like most of our municipalities today,
then use a Granular Activated Carbon (GAC) filter that has been silver
impregnated (to inhibit bacterial growth in the unit) to remove the
chlorine.

I don't know however, how good a job the chlorine does with the variety of
problems we might experience, but GAC does a great job of removing
chlorine.


From :  Brian Kobashigawa, 75610,1221   #51579

Caught the tail end of thread concerning seeds. One source of "survival
seeds" is a company called Nito-Pak Preparedness Center, 151 N. Main St.,
Heber, UT 84032 (800)-866-4876. Have an item in their catalog called
Survival Garden Seeds. Description says that item will store for a min of
4+ years, has 15 different high yield seed varieties (up to 5 acres worth),
comes in a nitogen packed #10 can with detailed instructions. Item #5600
$22.95 + shipping.

For $3 you can get their catalog and one year of updates which has
everthing from 3 mo., 6 mo., and 1 year food storage reserve units; low
moisture & freeze-dried foods; 72-hour emergency kits and supplies; water
storage, filter & sanitation supplies; first-aid and trauma kits and
supplies; other preparedness and survival supplies like grain mills, MREs,
emergency lighting and heating supplies, knives, etc., and a quality
selection of preparedness books and videos.

********************************************************************
From :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      #51386

>> What kind of scenario can you guys be envisioning where you might need
seeds? <<

Short term survival will have to hold up until the seeds can grow.
Eventually new things will need to be grown in the long term.  There is
every likelihood that in the face of the magnitude of changes that are
possible, the corner Safeway isn't going to reopen and established supply
lines are not going to return to normal after a few weeks.  After a few
months or so I'd imagine that people would want to move out of the hardcore
survival lifestyle and go back to being able to have a tomato or cuke now
and then.  There is no guarantee that any established supply lines are
going to be reopened.  Ever.  How difficult is it to leave this possibility
open and have a small stock of seeds on hand?

>>  The scenarios seem to range from Armegeddon- in which case we won't
need 'seeds', to alien invasion- don't need 'seeds' here either, to nuclear
holocaust- good luck finding uncontaminated soil to grow on, to localized
natural disasters- this being short-term disruption of life, so no 'seeds'
here either. <<

Or, total economic collapse (yes, we have found a need for seeds here!)
where nobody is trucking veggies and grain across the country because
they're not being paid and they can't buy diesel fuel to run their trucks
since nobody at the refinery is being paid either, and nobody wants to
deliver the diesel either... (ad infinitum)

*************************************************************
From :  Jeannie, 75773,1442             #52014

<. Most of our food stores will
  be vacumn packed. 20 cans of veggies vacumn packed take the space of
  1 can. It's all in the packaging and food choices. My husband has also
  maximized some vacuous spaces and redesigned them into further cabinets
 and storage holes. Get on a sailboat and start lifting up the floor
  boards. You'll easily see how people get smuggled into the country.
  Tons of unused space under there. We have rewired..plumbed , the entire
 boat. Now we are redesigning space.

  << w/nav station . It then has a hallway like
  a conventional apartment with the bedrooms and baths port and
  starboard. Having been stuck out in the ocean for days..rain sleet and
 20' seas....I liked having something to grasp and lean on while
  underway. I have been at sea in "conventional" sailboats and their
  huge, "brochure" interiors..are great while on the hook, however
  you'll kill yourself trying to navigate to the head or get a cup
  of coffee. Plus..I like going down the hall and into my room for
  privacy. It has a homey feel.

  The renovation has been horrendous. The first two years we had it ,
  we were leaving work at 5, jumping into our boat duds and off to
  the marina and working until midnight. Weekends were 8AM until we
  dropped. We kept this up until this fall and we both crashed.
  Some of the esthetic options we have chosen we know are high
  maintenance <20 coats of varnish on all exterior teak> however;
  it takes us one weekend every 6 months to sand it down and recoat.
  This boat is a classic beauty. We were blessed to have found it
  at the price we did. A real once in a lifetime buy. The fella that
  owned it started a software co..made it big..bought the boat from the
  original owner..became playboy from hell, lost his company..and had
  to liquidate it among  many of his other assets to come up with
  quick cash. Boat new..675,000. He purchased..450,000. He "dumped" it
  for 120,000. I have a girlfriend/ fellow sailorwoman who is a broker in
lauderdale..she
  called me at 2 in the afternoon..I was in Lauderdale by 8 that night.
  I owned the boat before I left the next day. We were insanely lucky.

  It will be our home at sea. It"s nice to pull up to foreign shores, tie
 up , tour and toodle around and be able to "go home" wherever you are.
  We have discussed the earth changes probability and we like the fact we
  will be globally mobile and self sufficient.

  Hope I have not bored you..but hope I answered your curiosity.
  Now, enough of this damn boat..O.K.? < I know..I started it..
  Jean Paradise



Forum:  Encounters+                     Section:  Earth Chgs/Prophecy
Subj :  Food!
To   :  Chris Malcheski, 71232,360      Friday, February 10, 1995  3:02:13 AM
From :  :Paul S. Cilwa/SL, 74362,2653   #35026

>> It beats eating bugs if times get bad!

Actually, the taboo against eating bugs is not global. A number of human
cultures eat beetles, various larva (they taste like shrimp), and locusts.
My personal feeling that cockroaches would also be nutrious, but be certain
you cook them well first as they carry a lot of germs to which we would be
susceptible (like tuberculosis).