Path: shell.portal.com!shell.portal.com!not-for-mail
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (boboroshi)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism,alt.pagan,alt.religion.wicca,talk.euthanasia,alt.suicide,alt.suicide.holiday,alt.self-esteem,alt.birthright,alt.individualism,sci.environment,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: Re: SAVE THE PLANET, KILL YOURSELF!  (was Satanists, Pagans, Slugs)
Date: 29 Aug 1996 09:57:14 -0700
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kaliyuga
49960829 AA1 Happy LUNAtix!


novasolo@aol.com:
#># Regarding the Church of Euthenasia... 
#># I should hope the "congregation's" response to "Save the Planet! Kill
#># yourself!" would be "You first!"  

boboroshi 
#> it often is, yes.  however, the rhetoric I utilize in response is that
#> I will be happy to do so once the objectives of the Church are realized
#> and I have finished all I have to do and experience here.  the important
#> point for me is not so much timing as EMPOWERMENT.  I want people to be
#> able to follow out their intuitive desire in response to Mom's call.
 
nova
# What happens if everyone who follows this belief of self-euthanasia says 
# the same thing?  

then we have everyone empowered to terminate their lives, agreeing that
this is our right and our lasting joy.  when Mom calls, we'll send for
the Reaper and go in our time.  very lovely.


# If you're going to promote this, get rid of yourself now while you're 
# still a burden to the biosphere. 

I'm dead to it presently, having sterilized myself, abandoned my auto,
reduced my space and object ownership to a minimum, undertaken to 
establish massive shared housing, and set out upon vegan ideals while
promoting the virtues of the Satanic Way.  if all the members of my
Church follow my example, then we'll more quickly catalyze the 
revolution of consciousness.  if the bulk of society followed my lead
then we'd have much less impact upon that same biosphere.
 

#># Aren't there enough hypocrites in the religions we have without 
#># creating more religions that just scream for hypocrisy? 

#> no hypocrisy involved.  

# ...you are hypocritical if you promote the idea of suicide for the 
# earth's benefit yet continue to live.

promoting an act in opposition to those who OUTLAW it, is not the same as
recommending it now for everyone.  obviously there is a timing issue
involved.  when it is our time I want everyone to be able to opt out of
life.  if more of us were able to respond to Mom's urges by virtue of our
connection and facilitated options by our community (consensual human sacrifice,
intentional suicide, etc.), then we'd be well on our way to improving the
general hit on Satan (wild nature), especially as conditions for humans
continue to deteriorate (which they will with this population-bomb going).

 
#># Does the CoE only promote gentle suicide without engaging in the practice?

#> I don't know whether the practice is at the forefront of demonstration
#> politics.  

# Demonstration without application is a waste of breath (or finger-skin). 
# If you don't live by the ideals you espouse, no one should take you
# seriously.  

the problem is that alot of us may be here promoting these ideals and
counter-acting the procreationists and pro-lifers to short out the
problem and attempt to steer the Human Boat back onto a reasonable course
before we know it is our time to terminate our lives.  I say that I don't
know if the practice is yet at this forefront because I don't know of the
age of the membership of the Church.  TLeary almost became a saint, had
he undertaken his Final Exit in a self-determined way as planned, rather
than having slept it off. ;>  in due time this Last Rite will of COURSE 
become an imperative demonstration.  first we work on the whole, then we 
set an example in our departure.  if we all just departed, then the 
political movement would dissipate, and we don't want this. ;>


#> rather than focussing on extending life, let's focus on quality of life 
#> for a certain duration.  the originals in the film 'Logans's Run' had 
#> it aright, though they unfortunately constrained the population to 
#> death and lied to them about the repercussions.  make death an 
#> ecstatic experience and we'll be able to head off the over-population 
#> one way or another.

# ...focusing on quality of life is a far cry from saying "save the planet, 
# kill yourself". 

not necessarily.  if we empower people to self-terminate, then make lots of
FUN ways for that termination to occur, then when Mom calls we'll be on
the next train to Nirvana.  the regulation of human vermin will come into
line via self-regulation in the elimination of barriers which had previously
served our species but now poses a threat (procreation-centeredness, 
preservation-focus, etc.).


# your goals in the church aren't clearly defined.  

the goals are clear.  reduce the population and the impact upon the biosphere,
whom some of us worship as our deity.


# You seem to be saying one thing while your intent is actually something else.

a subtle politic and teaching, I try to explicate it here.


#># I don't think the CoE crowns ecocentricism. Mass-murder does

#> no, because the CoE only supports voluntary terminations.  I'm not into
#> murder, frankly, and would rather go when it is my time.  I figure that
#> this is true for my kin too.
 
# Then please consider this to be an egocentric ecocentricism? ;>  

very good!  Satanism is predominantly an egocentric enterprise.  if we have
certain values at heart and wish to see these effected into practice, then
we will work towards these while engaging them ourselves.  we don't want to
take oppressive, totalitarian options which will merely disempower us and
set someone else's machinations into gear.  our objective is to liberate
everyone to fit more snugly into the food chain.  war is horrendous on the
rest of our kin.  humans are notoriously resistant to genocide (rightly so!).

the problem is that we've taken it too far!  not only have we prevented
genocide and murder (which I support strongly), but we have prevented 
our OWN ABILITY TO SELF-TERMINATE, indoctrinating our young to think it
is a SIN, when in fact it may be the most precious gift we can give to
an ailing planetary biosphere/goddess.

the Church of Euthanasia doesn't want MANDATORY RELIGIOUS PRACTICE, we want
the OPTION, perhaps enthusiastically supported by the Death Business.
instead of some governmental or corporate control on the ability to decease,
we want that power to fall into the hands of the INDIVIDUAL, and then let
the marketeers devise all manner of glorious way for people to end it!


# If you're being strictly ecocentric, if you're going to "crown" 
# ecocentricism, then who cares if terminations are voluntary or not?  

ego and eco are not necessarily separate entities.  natural processes lead
to despair, infertility, and other very important species-limitation
mechanisms which the pro-lifers and procreationists are hot to oppose.
but these factions are ignorant of their detrimental effects upon the
planetary wild (Satan), or at least uncaring.  give the power to the
people.  let us terminate as we see fit, and more will do so as time wears
on.  if you complain that the Church is not presently doing this, then
you overlook that Church of Euthanasia members are working FOR this
effort and so our lives are 'forfeit to the purposes of the biosphere'
already.  how many others can say this?


# I doubt very much the ecosystem cares if you die by Kevorkian methods 
# or because someone lopped your head off in a parking lot.  The point 
# remains:  By your logic, the ecosystem gains more benefit by mass 
# deaths than quiet, polite, voluntary, one at a time terminations.

that is not usually true.  the mass-deaths usually involve alot of
resistance at some point.  and it involves coercion.  there are more
peaceful ways to go about this, and while I agree that the biosphere
may not consciously care about how we terminate, I do think that if
we look at this problem in a LONG-TERM way, there will be less
impact if we begin carefully considering our values, what options
people are allowed within society, and how long we can keep to the
course we're running.

something else to be aware of is that the Church of Euthanasia is
pushing a *4* Pillar Plan.  we're not trying to support the Temple
using ONLY the Pillar of Suicide.  we're talking SODOMY, we're talking
ABORTION (failing the first), we're talking SUICIDE, and we're talking
CANNIBALISM (for the carnivorous-insistent).  taken together this can
form the perfect regimen for spiritual living.  fractionated I agree
that it may not lead to the ideals we set out to achieve.
  

# ...Ecocentrics should request their remains NOT be preserved. 
# Contrary to popular belief, embalming is not the law.  

of COURSE!  the ideal is to turn our flesh toward FOOD ENDS, so that we
don't have to rely so much on our parasitic source of our Host (Gaia).


# you'll be of more earthly benefit if you turn yourself into fertilizer.

that is certainly one way to go about it, yes.

 
#> instead I'd rather promote the solution on all fronts, including the
#> consumption of less meat so we can lessen our impact upon the wild,
#> an enhancement of sex education and sterilization options (switch
#> the cold war budget to finding out how to perfect temporary measures),
#> cannibalism, and perfecting the art of 'good death' (euthanasia).
 
# I'm not against euthanasia; I approve of it.  I do not approve of someone
# counselling others how earth-friendly it is to kill yourself now, while
# the counsellor is still planning on a few years of life.

you misunderstand.  humans have a natural urge to live.  the problem is
that this is over-emphacized by the establishment to the detriment of
the biosphere.  that is, the SAVE THE PLANET, KILL YOURSELF campaign,
arguably controversial, is a direct confrontation and opposition to
that procreationism.  a Yin to that over-emphacized Yang.  

given that a human receives the inner urges to self-terminate in our
culture now from Mom, we get tons of repressive enforcement to IGNORE
this directive.  we are told "it is a sin to 'commit suicide'".  we
are told that it is "a waste of a life", etc.  but there is nobody to
say "go ahead!  kill yourself!  there are really good reasons to do
it!"  we of the Church are taking on that job.

this maxim is not just about self-terminating now, as I have been trying
to make clear.  yes, the life you take now will likely add immeasurably
to the health of Mom.  but that depends on the life.  most people are so
immature in relation to the whole that they are merely assisting the
general destruction of the being which greater and greater numbers are
SAYING they love.  we say give this love some teeth.  put your love into
legal options.  don't just talk about how much you care about 'the Goddess'.

Church of Euthanasia members are like those standing at the Gates to the
Summerlands.  we understand some ideas which we think will result in the
assistance to our Mom.  we promote them and follow them out.  some of these
take a subtle angle to the common media (such as not mentioning the timing
of self-termination right off or not immediately talking about the source
of food for cannibalism).  these are intentional flags for attention so
that the issues can be brought out into the open and redirected to 
ecological purposes.

if all of us suddenly decided to pass through those gates, then there'd
be nobody left to promote the general health of the organism.  there are
thus two options truly available to those who say we love Gaia and Satan: 
to abandon them in favor of short-term pleasure and really to cease what 
I'd call 'spirituality' in any sort of nature-centered way, or to promote 
the means by which this can be rectified.

results of that promotion may include the empowerment of individuals to
follow out Gaia's directives (self-termination, for example), but we're 
not advocating a TIMING, and this is an important point.
  

#> there are those who, within Church publications, do indeed recommend
#> genocide and mass-sterilization.  these are important things to discuss,
#> though I personally oppose them as contrary to our best interests
#> long-term.  people will begin to understand the values put forward
#> by the Church as the change in living conditions and species dispersal
#> becomes more and more rapid and the biosphere consciousness instructs
#> them to self-terminate through disease, depression or other malady.  

# ...In the long term, you might be able to convert to suicide more 
# people than you could get in a mass-murder spree before the cops got 
# you.  Or the general populace just decided you were a church of 
# sociopaths.  An interesting gamble to take.

not just a gamble.  I'm not in it for the short-term.  I'm trying to 
actually make it possible for humans to continue a symbiotic relationship
here.  it is not just a 'conversion to suicide' (short-term blatant
tactics), but an EMPOWERMENT and an ENCOURAGEMENT.  give us the power to
end this parasitism, then provide the encouragement to make that a reality
when we come to know it is our time to go.

the police are our FRIENDS.  they regulate society in ways which are set
out by the government which ostensibly protects the minority from oppression
when all things work arightly (at least in the US).  to bother doing things
which are illegal is fine for the guerillas, but in the long-run it will
peter out as the force of official control mobilizes to exterminate the
diseased cells. 

we're looking for this to become PART OF THE OFFICIAL CONTROL.  that is,
we want the police to *protect the right to self-terminate* (SUICIDE), 
*protect the options of nonprocreation* (SODOMY), *protect the ability 
to regulate progenation* (ABORTION), and *enforce a restriction on the
terrible consequences of carnivorousness for those who insist on it
(CANNIBALISM).

HAIL SATAN!

tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
boboroshi
-- 
see http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html  and  call: 408/2-666-SLUG!!!
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