To: liuk@starbase1.caltech.edu (LiuK)
From: tyagi mordred nagasiva 
Subject: Peripheral Perceptions; Advice (9408.prphrls.tn2)
Date: 49940716
Quoting: |liuk@starbase1.caltech.edu (LiuK) and |>tyagi

|> I've been ignoring them for years and these days they only come up for
|> me when I'm on the edge: e.g. lacking for sleep, recently startled by a
|> very loud noise, all alone in a dark, unfamiliar place.  Doing grave-
|> yard security shifts put me in touch with a shitload of demons, let me
|> tell you!  
|
|But doesn't this just lend credence to the argument that these things are all
|in one's head?

There is no one god-loving Perspective on things.  Demons are 'all in one's
head' as well as 'objective entities'.  God both does and does not exist,
and both, and neither.  Our language can't contain the entirety of Truth.


|> Centering directed awareness (accomplished with flourish
|> by 'banishing spells', resolves the fear into experience and pranayama
|> (breathing power or relaxation into oneself) will allow persistent
|> activity during the pain, awe or horror.
|
|And isn't a banishing spell just an effective way to control the fears in
|one's own mind?  I shouldn't say "just."  I am in awe of it's effectiveness. 

I don't think it is a 'control' issue.  Compare this (and I have) with the
pain experienced during massage.  If one attempts to 'control' that pain,
I think one desensitizes to the massage.  If one 'breathes through' the
pain (in effect, RELEASING it), then one becomes more able to benefit by
the experience, healing through touch pressure.  Same is true for fear.


|I don't mean to be disrespectful, but the more I learn about magick, the more
|it seems to me that it is one part religio-philosophy and two parts
|psychology.  

There are lots of these elements, yes.  I think that it might include more 
than you've mentioned here and that for different people it includes different
things.  It has a rotational quality, as all arts and sciences do.


|It seems less and less occult to me; more like ideas accepted by
|society but presented in a different light.  

It is easy to see magick in this way, yet I think that the theories of what
is popularly called 'Thelema' (derived of Rosicrucia and Hermetica) make it
somewhat more than a psychological tool.


|There is so much similarity to psychotherapy, only coming from the other 
|side of the mirror, so to speak. (I don't know what the hell that means; 
|it just sounded right.)  

I suppose you mean self-(psycho?)analysis.  This is the personal and
individual side to magick as I understand it.  There is much more potential
in this art and science.  Not only is therapy an outcome but so is politic
(social repercussions) and apocalypse (universal repercussions).  The Magus
operates on all these levels simultaneously, often visibly.  The Ipsissimus
operates on them simultaneously and without leaving residue that may form
obnoxious imps!


|Of course, I'm just a young upstart (er, not so young), who's casting 
|judgement based on a few months worth of reading and practice.

That is your privilege (and possibly your bane! :>).


|> |2)  I'm somewhat nervous about what I'm doing, even though I'm not
|> |aware of any nerves, and that's causing me to overreact to visual noise
|> 
|> That's how I tend to approach it, trained rationalist that I am.
|> I have experimented otherwise, of course, summoning demons, but
|
|How can you tell the difference? 

Your question seems to imply that there is an objective difference.
I'm not sure there is.  Yet my *experience* will certainly differ,
and my experience is largely determined by the beliefs that I engage.


|Kitaro?  I'll have to dust off my lp's.

CD's are more lovely when it comes to Kitaro, I find.


|> |heavily interested in the "occult" and tried all sorts of things such
|> |as ouija boards, crystal balls, and "sceances".  Never got very far. 
|> 
|> Good sign.  Most are a waste of time, especially as the general
|> public uses them.
|
|Not a good sign.  Never got very far because I'm impatient and unfocused. 

'Got far' is the relevant wording here.  Like to explore what you see as
'progress' and why?


|> |to experience was the feeling of being watched; occasionally "seeing"
|> |things, "hearing" things.  
|> 
|> Shadow-self watching, hoping you'll make contact.  Some equate this
|> with your HGA watching over you.  
|
|Shadow-self?  HGA?  When I was "playing" with the Ouija board, I made contact
|with an "entity" who identified himself as my guardian angel.  

Various beings identify themselves in various ways.  If a human identified
himself as your master, would you believe him?   If so, why?  If not, why
treat this entity any differently?  Part of the danger of the relationship
with such beings is in the uncertainty of their expressions and whether or
not it is a complex ruse to entrap and enslave you.  If you are able to
detect elements of entrapment/enslavement, then you can avoid the idiot
devils that pretend to your power.

Asprin's Myth books are good for explaining the psychology of the devils and
demons, as is _Master of Five Magics_ (author?).


|After some
|time communicating, I could sense his pressence even when I wasn't at the
|board.  But he never felt like anything other than a seperate entity from me.
| And a "he".  (I am a "she".)  

That's saying alot.  Most of the time I've only felt what appeared to be
my own imagination playing games.  I.e. I created it because I wanted to.
Not until I met Kali did I experience other entities with any substance
and personality.


|I think now, he was a product of my desires and fears.

Could well be, but I advise not oversimplifying by virtue of a preponderance
of materialistic bias.


|> |These unsettling experiences, along with my
|> |emersement in science, led me to abandon the whole thing.  
|> 
|> Excellent demonstration of will-exertion (based on fear or no).
|
|...I abandoned the occult

You did it.


|...I bought into the idea that my participation made me less "scientific."  

Any time we act on an idea we 'buy into it'.  There is nothing but coherency
and consistency with which to gauge other than our personal needs and
preferences.  Everything is true.


|That there was a rational and thus mundane explanation for all
|these things, even if I didn't know what that was.  

There are countless explanations.  We choose which to hold to us (or we
float in blissful gnosis).


|...I abandoned religious belief altogether.  So there was nothing commendable
|about it.  

You did it.  Abandoning any belief is what I call 'commendable'.


|After some time, the feeling of being watched, faded away.  Years later, when
|I called to him, there was no response.  

Sure, your experience changed based upon your beliefs.  If you wanted to
have a personal relation with the universe, then religion is more likely
your proving ground.  Modern Science encourages impersonality.


|Proof, at the time, that it was all in my head.  But it filled me with 
|lonliness and remorse.

Not proof at all.  I submit that you *took* it as proof, but that 'proof'
per se is dependent upon the criteria we choose to establish it, and this
is wholly relative, even if founded upon a logical premise.


|> |Later, I
|> |told myself that my experiences were the fantasies of a child.  But I
|> |was never fully convinced of that.
|> 
|> Good.  Convictions and certainties will destroy your ability to perceive
|> the infinite diversity of human experience.  Become convinced of anything
|> and you kill some aspect of your soul.
|
|Too late.  

Never.


|I came back to magick to feel what I felt as a child.  

Great idea.  'Become as a little child.'  Thus have you retained your path
of Mastery.  Your value of this experience shall lead you to wonderful places.


|To be able to hear/sense the trees.  
|Do I sound like a total new-age flake now? 

Do I sound like a 'total new-age flake' when I say that I am an elf, that
I have had the magical name 'Lorax', that I like to sit by an Elder and
learn of Hir wisdom, that I enjoy hugging trees and conversing with them
in my bliss and sorrow?  Bah!  Be done with this silly categorizing!


|Probably, to a magician.  

You sound logical, coherent, sincere and heart-felt.  This is the stuff of
which mages are *made*!  Be not so quick to excise yourself from mage-dom.


|I used to be able to go into the eucalyptus grove,
|near my home, and "hear" the trees; feel the life of the grass, every insect,
|bird, and squirrel.  Or so it seemed to me.  

And so it was.  There is no truth save experience.  Surely you heard them
just as I am hearing you now.


|Now, it's all I can do to keep
|my mind free of tomorrow's agenda when I'm meditating.  The little peekaboos
|flitting in and out of my visual world are unnerving but promising.  But they
|do not feel the same.

So you are now at a different place on the path.  Perhaps today you will
forde a river or tres a pass, yet there is no reason to think that because
today we are amidst the thorn, tomorrow we may not find ourselves right
back amidst the lillies.  The 'passage through' requires that we abandon
the 'safe and comfortable'.  It is only God's lie that we cannot re-enter
the Garden.


|> Proceed with caution and listen carefully to your intuition.  Beyond this
|> there is absolutely no advice which may be applied with consistent and
|> beneficial results.
|
|I realize now that the second part of my letter sounds completely different
|in terms of belief from the first.  Yet I am sincere.  I am confused.  

Could be.  I only respond here as I did before, perhaps with a twist to take
into consideration your variation of expression.  Sincerety is your blessing.
Confusion is your challenge.  Can we live in uncertainty, confusion and
ambiguity?  I think this is the test of those who face the Abysmal Cleft.


|after years of wrestling between the two, I CANNOT tell the difference
|between my intuition and my rationalizations.  

Then perhaps your first task is to discern (through FEELING) what your
intuition is, and then to hold fast to it as it takes you beyond mere
rationalizations and into experience.  I cannot say, though this has
been my path to some extent.


|I have not been able to for several years now.  But will continue to 
|fumble through it.  Still think there's any hope for me?

Hope is for those without enjoyment.  I do not know you well enough to
know if you have enjoyment in the present.  That you are sincere speaks
to your favor, as does your clarity of expression and ability to reflect.

That you persist even when given information which conflicts with your
preferences says much for your maturity and your ability to suspend your
beliefs (even if you have bias).


|prudence.

tyagi
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com