Area : I_UFO

Date : Tue Jan 16, 21:10                                                       
From : Dave Schultz                                            1:114/262
To   : Cris Paunescu                       
Subj : 12Th Planet 1/4                                                       
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Looks like this is going to be a long post, so will cut to four parts.
12th Planet -- 1/4



-=> Quoting Dave Schultz to All <=-
 -=> Cristian and Walter in orbit on a few things<=-

 CP> Hi, Dave, I like the above line... we are getting far, aren't we ? (G)

Hi, Cris. Appreciated your patient attitude in attempting to dig
Walter out. As an observer, I think when he re-assesses everything
from his quickly-evolving point of view, he will have some good
information. When someone reaches the "heights" as he indicated he
has, it takes a little time to come back down to this lower vibration
and to re-intregrate what normally would be a very wide-angle vision
of things. Kind of reminds of Paul of Tarsus, who took over three years
to re-intregate before he was able to communicate whatever was relevant
to the times to the masses after reaching the "heights." Not sure what
Walter's questions were on his way up, but am certain he got more
answers than he bargained for and will have to weed them out to see
what is relevant to these times. But you'll have to admit, he found
the key to it all...if it can't be done in love, it won't be done
properly, if at all. Widsom will dictate how to use and where to apply
that key. Don't mean to wax biblical here, but it seems to fit the
situation. Paul got a little impatient with Peter too, it appeared.

 DS> 'S'cuse me for butting in here, really. I'm not necessarily pushing
 DS> anyone's reality, but for the sake of information I offer the
 DS> following:

 CP> Anytime, there is no problem, any piece of information may prove
 CP> valuable.

 DS> ....How is the gold used to warm up the planet?
 DS> Answer: It is granulated and placed in orbit, creating a
 DS> shield to reflect the planet's own heat resources.

 CP> Another question (G) : if the planet has heat resources, what do
 CP> they need gold for ? And isn't there a better way ? Surely a race
 CP> that has developed space travel has at least one way of producing
 CP> energy that is better than that... some solar panels, maybe ?

Of course, all we can do is speculate on mythical information at this
point. So speculate I will.  From what I understand, Nibiru's orbit
takes it on a 1800 year journey away from Sol before it returns. 
Supposedly, it has it's own internal heat source, but it had dissipated
beyond the danger point and needed a reflector to keep the heat in. If
I lived long enough, it wouldn't surprise me to look up someday and 
see a monstrous golden globe whizzing by. Look how close we are to the
sun, and we are beginning to have heat problems ourselves...and life
on earth would probably end if we got pushed further away from the sun.
And as Mark Spiridakis suggests, maybe the Nephilim have need of 
something more than gold from our planet. If that be the case, I
would guess they need a new place to live if they can no longer
maintain their environment. Wouldn't bother me if a Nephilim moved
next door to me! Maybe he/she could get my lawnmower started. (g)
 
 DS> Nibiru, the 12th Planet, was not from our solar
 DS> system originally. It is about 4 or 5 times the
 DS> size of earth and supposedly entered our system
 DS> as a result of nowhere else to go when it's own
 DS> sun collapsed. Must have been on the outer rim

 CP> Well, that might explain the " no orbit, no sun " statement
 CP> Walter made, however, I was under the impression that life
 CP> existed on that planet before it reached our solar system...

That's the way I understand it. They had an evolved race before
Planet Earth had life forms....and that was a looooonnng time ago!
And it is possible, I guess. The difficult thing for many to
accept (if true) is that us humans weren't the first and the
only intelligence to evolve in the universe after all!

 DS> Uranus and Saturn pulled it into our system in the
 DS> far distant past. It supposedly has a 3,600-year
 DS> orbit in our solar system and has been adopted by
 DS> our sun. So the story goes, as life evolved on Nibiru,
 DS> eons before life evolved on earth, the inhabitants
 DS> came to earth to mine gold.

 CP> There are some complications here : if we accept the 3,600
 CP> years orbit, you will certainly agree with me that this is not
 CP> - by far - enough for life to evolve from nothing to space

If they were part of our original solar system, I would agree.
But if they evolved millions of years before they entered our
solar system, that would eliminate the complication you pose.

 CP> travel. Agreed ? Good. ( I am thinking about the _close to
 CP> sun=warm_, _far from sun=cold_ ) This means that, if the planet
 CP> needed the gold to warm up ( no matter which way the gold was
 CP> used ), the planet would not be able to support life in the
 CP> first place... Where did life come from ?

Cont'd -- 12th Planet 2/4
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Area : I_UFO

Date : Tue Jan 16, 21:10                                                       
From : Dave Schultz                                            1:114/262
To   : Cris Paunescu                       
Subj : 12Th Planet 2/4                                                       
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

12th Planet 2/4

Natural evolution on their own planet ... similar to our own
history. If they didn't come to earth and mess with our genes,
we would still be over a billion and a half years behind them
in evolution. It matters not one way or the other, as we would
be unaware and living our lives with limited intelligence anyway,
thankful for being able to snag a deer or a few fishees when we
got hungry. It's relative, I guess. But now that I think about
it, I would be satisfied with that kind of uncomplicated life
right today. (G) Have we really gained that much, as "evolved"
creatures?  

 CP> So, we have two possibilities here :

 CP> 1 : Nibiru had life before being pulled into our system, and
 CP> this life managed to survive their sun's collapse ( hard to
 CP> believe )

Depends on what level the life was that had evolved there ..sentient
or non-sentient. I suppose it is hard to believe. But then our
beliefs are based on limited knowledge of what really is possible
in the other physics that might be in operation in other parts of
the universe. Ya have to admit that our present level of science
dictates what we are "supposed" to believe. If we knew it all, we
wouldn't have science scratchin' it's head all the time, wondering
even how to solve and resolve many lesser and non-astronomical problems.

 CP> 2 : Life appeared on Nibiru after becoming part of our solar
 CP> system, on a planet that was not capable of supporting life.
 CP> ( harder to believe ). Not capable because of the gold mentioned
 CP> before.

Well, as stated, life was supported there as it evolved to a certain
point, and later became threatened because of it's diminishing
atmosphere. I don't think it is impossible for a planet to have
its own heat source and other conditions necessary to sustain life
without sunshine. Do you?  

 DS> Why don't they get gold elsewhere? Maybe they do.
 DS> If they found it on earth, maybe they have mining
 DS> operations on other planets of Sol. Check out
 DS> the picture in Z. Sitchin's book, "Genesis Revisited."
 DS> Strange looking landscape on the Uranian moon Miranda,

 CP> Well, considering that Nibiru is about 4 or 5 times the size of
 CP> Earth, they certainly need a lot of gold... how long do you think
 CP> they needed to create the reflecting gold shield around the planet?

As long as it DID take, as they are apparently still living and have
had an adequate supply, at least up until the last pass. Who knows?
Maybe no one is left alive on Nibiru at this point, and the only
survivors are those who came to this planet and are still here among
us or in orbit in our solar system on a mother ship or living on the
moon, or other planet here. I don't know. I would hate to think that
no one is left alive on Nibiru. 

 CP> What did they do before they completed this task ? How were they
 CP> able to survive before they had the shield in place ? 

I would think that they had sufficient heat and resources to last them
during the task, and had the sense to realize years before that if they
didn't do something to keep the heat in they would perish. Survival
mechanism must have kicked in and inspired them to speed up their
technologies. I expect we would do the same, if we knew the earth's
atmosphere would only last another 50 years. Of course, their 50
years would have been equal to 50 x 3600, which certainly would have
given them time to come up with something. 

 CP> You see, it's a very interesting ( and new, I guess ) idea, but
 CP> it doesn't really " hold water ", does it ?

My bladder don't at times, either. I guess I better cut down on the
"Suds." (g) I look at this whole problem as a way to figure
a solution (in a very unscientific way, I'm sure) to a possible
circumstance earth might be in at some point in the far, distant
future......or even maybe right around the corner. It may not hold
water today, but thinking about it intensely enough and eliminating
the things that won't work, we may just end up with something that
will work. Place yourself in their position and think "survival."

I don't think humankind was created to make a brief appearance in
the universe only to disappear from the scene. Quite the opposite,
planets may come and go, but I feel that creative intelligence,
self-awareness, memory and identity will live on in some form. If
I didn't believe that, I would find the nearest cliff and jump off
right now rather than play a role in what would have to be then
considered a farcicle, temporary, treacherous and murderous environment.
Every thing would be in vain. Though I will have to admit that with me,
it is not a question of belief, but more like a knowing.....having done
some travelling already by a different mode of transportation. ;>
       
 DS> You're last question concerning better ways of
 DS> mining gold. The story says that the 12th planet
 DS> people, The Nephilim of the Bible, originally
 DS> mined it from the seas. The race eventually found
 DS> it more plentiful in Africa and moved their
 DS> operations there. Carbon-dating of an ancient

cont'd to 12th Planet 3/4
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Area : I_UFO

Date : Tue Jan 16, 21:10                                                       
From : Dave Schultz                                            1:114/262
To   : Cris Paunescu                       
Subj : 12Th Planet 3/4                                                       
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

12th Planet 3/4

 CP> If they were able to get gold from the seas, they certainly
 CP> didn't need any slaves, mutated or not, did they ? And how is

They didn't mine from the seas very long, as they found it was not
"cost-effective" for the small contingent that originally came to
earth. In due time, they turned their efforts to earth mining,
having discovered gold laying all over the place in parts of Africa.
The Anunnaki mined for 150,000 years before the revolt. They
were no different than any other labor union that got tired of
eating coal dust (or gold dust) in their sandwiches. After the
revolt, the big wheels decided to create a worker to replace them
in the mines. They used homo erectus in what is now Zimbabwe to
experiment with and came up with a lulu, (the actual term) a worker,
which was then cloned. The Anunnaki from the E.din, up in the Iran-Iraq
area where the agricultural complex was, came down and stole a few
lulus to do their farming as well.

Further genetic experimentation by the chief know-it-all, resulted
in the clone from the hybrid, with only one set of chromosomes was
unable to re-produce itself. They used the Anunnaki females, called
birth goddesses to produce the clones. I would imagine the Anunnaki
males had very inactive sex lives as a result of all the females
being tied up as birth vessels for lulu production. Maybe that would
account for the Nephilim, the "sons of God," need to turn to their
creatures for a little R & R. After all, they were compatible, according
to the bible. I have no problem understanding that.  

 CP> it possible that they didn't know in the beginning that Africa
 CP> was richer in gold than the sea ? Not to mention that I believe
 CP> it easier to mine on land than under water. ( If under water is
 CP> what mining from the sea means. )

They probably did not know in the beginning. Even if they did, 
the decision was to attempt to use the seas first. Limited
resources at hand. As the 12th Planet came around each time,
the labor resources were increased, which would have allowed
them to go to Africa in large enough numbers to to make it
more worthwhile to do earth mining.

 DS> mine shaft in that region shows man-made mining
 DS> shafts and gold mining operations dating at least
 DS> 125,000 years ago. (Old AP wire story, of which I
 DS> have a copy) The great flood ended the mining
 DS> operations, filling the shafts with mud, etc. The
 DS> operation was moved to meso-america after the
 DS> floodwaters abated and ended the ice age about
 DS> 13,000 years ago. That's supposedly when the
 DS> original structures in South America, Central
 DS> America and parts of Mexico began appearing.
 [.....]

 CP> Yes, it all seems to make sense, to stay together, and yet...
 CP> if you were to take it apart piece by piece, it wouldn't seem
 CP> so easy any longer... It very much depends on what each of us
 CP> wants to believe, I guess. Or, it's the way we choose to make
 CP> the facts fit the theory, instead of the other way around...
 CP> ( or is it the other way...  )

We have always had theories but no facts. So, through synthesis,
we take what we have in the way of research and "flesh out" a few
of these theories. Some make sense, and are more palatible than
others. As you say, it depends what you want to believe. So in your
travels though this Earth Chronicles realm, you are venturing 
into a land that is built on best guesses. Hafta admit those guesses
sound a little more sound than others, and  fit very nicely with the
whole cloth and pattern of the rest of the quilt.
 
Not necessary to believe any on this, of course. Makes no difference.
Just an exercise in expanding the possibilities, which is not
necessary either. If nothing else, it offers an alternate view
of early history, which nobody knows the truth of anyway. But if
present events keep turning up which confirms some of the
speculation, it might help us to understand why things are
happening in the world today ..... in relation to the political
scene as well as the "alien" scenarios. I don't think we can
really understand what is happening in the world if we don't have
knowledge of the beginnings. As it has been said many times, those
who don't remember history are bound to repeat it. How can we have
a part in changing the course of things if we do not only not
remember, but have no history books to refer to either. Kinda makes
one feel like a bee gathering honey for someone else all the time.
I think humans are something more than bees and think it is time to
stretch our reality envelopes and paradigms. If nothing else, 
reading Sitchin's first book will at least do that for you,
myth or not.

Cont'd 12th Planet 4/4
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Area : I_UFO

Date : Tue Jan 16, 21:10                                                       
From : Dave Schultz                                            1:114/262
To   : Cris Paunescu                       
Subj : 12Th Planet 4/4                                                       
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

12th Planet 4/4

reading Sitchin's first book will at least do that for you, myth or not.

 DS> mythology, of course. But then, what is the
 DS> basis of mythology?

 CP> Imagination ? (G) We have a saying back home, something like
 CP> - each story has a grain of truth in it...
 
And many ears of corn are inherent in each kernel....

 DS> Hope this answers your questions. Even if
 DS> Z. Sitchin's Earth Chronicles is a bunch of
 DS> hooey, it has to be the greatest sci-fi
 DS> ever written and well worth the read. Who
 DS> knows? If anything Sitchen has said is really
 DS> true, (Some of it has to be), it is worth
 DS> reading to find that truth.   --Dave--

 CP> Actually, my guess ( I didn't read them yet, remember ?  )
 CP> is that most of what Sitchin wrote is true, or valid, or at
 CP> least close to reality. And if he has some talent too, then
 CP> it is really worth the time... I will find out soon.
 CP> But I still have some problems with the way of interpretation...
 CP> On the other hand, this very much depends on the person in
 CP> question, doesn't it ?
 
I notice several encouraging you read the "Chroncles." My advice
is don't. You ask some good questions and makes those that read
them look for the answers to the questions you pose. And I think
that is very healthy. Of course, there are some of us who have read
the material who have not accepted it all as the bible truth.
But then, can we accept all of the bible as bible truth? 
The Chronicles are not inconsistent with the bible rendition of
history, and in fact backs up the scriptural rendition of history. 

For myself, I have studied all the material and have read each
book in the series at least 10 times and still can't correlate
it all. I even presented a few lectures on his first book to
my classmates back in '76. So, it might be considered more than
just of passing interest to me.....as the material covers much
more than just early history and cosmology. It identifies many
other aspects of what mankind has attempted to contend with and
verbalizes many of the questions and things mankind has never
put into words before.....much less given much thought to.
As I mentioned, the material has a way of really stretching
one's reality envelope, and the spirit of its presentation
does not force the envelope to expand....gently nudges it in
a direction heretofore not travelled.

My suggestion though, if you do read the books, don't get hung
up on the cosmology. Pretend that the Nephilim were the first
race on earth to evolve and take it from there.....and they
wanted the gold for another purpose. For example, maybe whoever
collected the most golden marbles was named chief honcho for the
next ruling period. 
 
 CP> Another great post, thanks, Dave. 

My continuing pleasure, Cris. 

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