Date: 01-26-91  17:45

> Meeting: UFO CONTACT CENTER INTERNATIONAL GROUP MEETING, 1988
> Speaker: Martin Cannon
> Subject: UFOs and Mind Control

[THIS IS A TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED TALK GIVEN BY MARTIN CANNON VIA
TELEPHONE TO THE UFO CONTACT CENTER INTERNATIONAL GROUP MEETING IN
1988. BECAUSE IT IS A TRANSCRIPTION, SOME OF THE NAMES MAY BE
INCORRECTLY SPELLED, BUT THE CONTENT OF THE INFORMATION RELAYED
REMAINS 100% ACCURATE.]

                       * * * * * * * * * * * * *

All I can say is that I have been, for over a year now, pursuing a
specific theory of UFO abductions which has royally ticked off
everybody that I've come in contact with -- believer and skeptic
alike.

This is a theory that, I think, designed to make me hate it. I'm
primarily interested in the government's involvement in the UFO
phenomena. Specifically, it seems to me, and I might as well lay out
all my cards on the table at once, it seems to me the abduction
phenomenon might just be a ploy, that the aliens are a paper-mache
mask, as I sometimes put it, for something else that's really going
on.

All theories of UFO abductions that I've ever come across (excepting
the entirely skeptical ones put out by people like Philip Klass), they
all include some aspect of the concept of mind control. Now it seems
to me that if people's minds are being controlled, and I think that
this technology is in existence, then we have to ask the question: can
we trust the participant's reports of what they are seeing, in terms
of perhaps even the UFO's that they are seeing, but certainly the
nature of the abduction experience itself?

Do we even have to assume that the little gray aliens exist simply
because people tell us that they do, even if they believe that they
exist? Drawing from a very old example out of hypnotism, and Aileen
being herself a hypnotherapist, can perhaps tell you more about this -
- it was a very common practice, going back many, many decades, to see
if somebody was under some hypnotism, they would introduce them --
they would take the subject, hypnotize them, and say that there was a
small, black dog in the room, and he's coming up, and would you pet
him.

And the subject will often actually see the dog just as thoroughly,
just as concretely, as they would see any normal dog that you might
get out of the animal shelter.

Now if the human brain can be tricked to that extent, then is it not
possible that the ET's that people are seeing are of an exactly like
substance to that dog?

I think it is. I have done a great deal of research into the subject
of the government's involvement in mind control operations. They like
people to believe that that was all something that they were doing
back in the 50's and the 60's, and it was all to catch up with the
Russians who had this huge lead in the field, but they stopped doing
it around 1963 and they never really found anything -- it's all a lie!

I mean, basically, I've just come to the conclusion where I can say
that right now. These programs went very, very far. We got there
first. We were far ahead of the Russians. I even can give you a memo
where Allen Dulles admitted that to the Warren Commission, of all
places.

It went back to World War II, possibly to the 30's, in fact I've just
recently came across some information that occult groups have been
doing experimentations with what they call electronic mind control,
going all the way back to the 19th century. In fact there isn't a
single technology of mind control that doesn't go back to that time.

And so, one of the problems, well, I should say that in researching
this I have not only looked up, read every book available on this
subject, some of which are EXTREMELY hard to find. I mean, I'm sorry
to sound too paranoid but I'm really beginning to get the idea that
somebody has been going around to the libraries and hussling them off
the shelves, because I keep on finding, you know, there are certain
books that I keep on looking for, and I find that they are not checked
out, and they are not only the library shelves either! And I'm
wondering what's happened to them.

But I think I've now amassed quite a library on the subject, and I've
also gone to Washington, D.C. and I saw some 20,000 documents, these
are de-classified CIA / Defense Department documents, as well as many
interviews with scientists working on these programs back in the 50's
and 60's, and these were all compiled by John Marks, for his book _The
Search for the Manchurian Candidate_.

I would suggest that all of you people read that book, but you must
understand that that book is incredibly conservative, and that the
whole subject goes far, far beyond that. I don't know why John Marks
wrote it the way he did. Certainly, there was much more information in
his files than he allowed to come out in his book.

Another good book which I'm sorry to say is very, very difficult to
get a hold of, and probably the best book on the subject, is called
_Operation Mind Control_, and that's by Walter Bowart. But even then,
after you've gone to that literature, you know, you have to search
through a great deal of periodicals and scientific papers and so
forth, and also conduct a great many interviews.

I've interviewed people who claim to have been under mind control,
specifically in Vietnam. And what they describe is very, very similar
to what the abductee's are describing in many respects. Not only that,
I've spoken to abductees. And this is a subject on which I feel a
certain amount of hesitancy in describing and talking about.

One abductee, I called her Veronica in an article I wrote in UFO
Magazine (it's a long and extremely complicated and fascinating case),
under hypnosis, and I did not hypnotize her, in fact she is the one
who wanted the hypnosis and it was administered by a professional
hypnotist. In the 4th hypnotic session she described one of her
abductions, which as she dug deeper turned out not to have taken place
at all in any kind of Unidentified Flying Object, but in fact took
place in a house outside the Los Angeles area.

And of course, we kept zeroing in on the house and its location, and
so on and so forth.

Now, I must state directly here that there is some possibility, of
course, whenever there is a hypnotized subject -- it is often stated
wants to please the hypnotist, therefore might confabulate details
that would fit that hypnotists' particular thesis. I must say that
Veronica came up with the CIA thesis long before I ever met her. She
was saying that that was just one possibility among others.

It also seems to be a nagging possibility that other abductees that I
have read about and talked to have come up with, although they didn't
explore it. There is something about the idea of being in contact with
alien beings that is extremely attractive to them, and they don't want
to give it up very easily.

Anyway, to go back to the hypnotic session -- she had talked about --I
won't give you the details of this kind of terrifying session that she
underwent in this man's house -- but, after the session, I found out
later she was told under some sort of hypnosis, even though the
hypnotist had tried to get her out of it, and she said that she was no
longer in trance, but apparently she still was. But I said, "Well,
okay, let's drive there."

And we did. And I got a location, we found the location, and she
suddenly got very scared and we had to turn back. Well, I later did a
little bit of detective work and I found out who lived there. I won't
give the name, because there is obviously a certain possibility of
lible involved, but I found out that the man who lived in that house
was a scientist who worked on the CIA's mind control programs. These
programs had projects like ARTICHOKE, BLUEBIRD, MK-ULTRA.

Not only that, while on the way there, Veronica described the interior
of this house, including one specific unusual detail that almost
nobody has in his living room, and I later found out from somebody who
had been in that house, that she described it accurately.
Unfortunately, Veronica now says that she can remember nothing of our
conversation together and I didn't tape her admission of what was
inside the house, so there is no way I can prove this, which is why I
am very, very wary of mentioning names, and possibly giving way to a
lible suit.

But I will say that for my purposes, and I can't prove it to anybody
else, but it has been proved to me that in at least one instance this
thesis is correct.

I must tell you right now that I am as loath as anybody else to give
up on the alien hypothesis. I mean I grew up with it, I read alot of
UFO books in my time. I've never been plugged into the UFO Network...
I've never spoken to the actual researchers until just recently. And
even then it's only quite tangential. Aileen is probably the one I
know best. And so, it gets very, very difficult for me to give up
entirely upon the idea of the aliens. And I know that people will get
angry at me, because I am exploring another possibility. But it just
seems that this is a path which has to be looked at.

I do know that from the internal CIA correspondence that I've looked
at in Washington, that one of the problems they had, is that -- it was
a "disposal problem" -- whenever they were experimenting on someone to
see how firmly they could control that person's mind, even though they
would try many techniques to get them to forget the session, as it
were, it was almost impossible to make them forget entirely. Memories
would come out, often-time in dreams, of what was going on.

One of the scientists who worked on it, I think that was Martin
Warren, you may recall Martin Warren because he's mentioned
prominently in Philip Klass' skeptical book on UFO abductions. Martin
Warren -- what Philip Klass doesn't tell you is that Martin Warren was
a CIA operative going back to the very early 60's...

But one of the things they mentioned in this context of people
remembering, was they will remember any scenario that they are told.
In other words, you can tell them: "Yes, something happened there...
but you know...", you can fix the memory -- in other words, arrange a
cover story. And so, yeah, the person might wake up in the middle of
the night with this terrible, terrible feeling in that back of his
head that he has been hypnotically told to forget something that
happened to him. But as long as he misremembers that, then the actual
truth of the matter will never come out.

Now I think that something very much like that happened to a man named
Marty Kosky. Marty Kosky was a Finnish citizen. He was staying in
Canada sometime in the mid to the late 1970's, and I have alot of
material from him. He claims to have been a victim of mind control.
Now, by the 1970's this whole technology was getting extremely
baroque. In the 50's and the 60's, according to John Mark's informant,
nobody knows his name, I don't even think John Mark's knows his name -
- he was given the nickname "Deep Trance" -- according to Deep Trance
the mind control was basically, the technology had to do with drugs
and some with hypnosis. In the 70's it started to turn to things like
implantations in the brain and microwaves. And the two of them can
work together.

Now Marty Kosky claims, this Finnish citizen claims to have been a
victim of the microwave experimentations happening in Canada. He had
first, in 1977 or thereabouts, came out with a brochure that was, well
you know, he learned English only a couple of years previously, and he
wasn't a professional writer, and claimed to be microwaved in his
brain, and so obviously you can tell that the pamphlet that he came up
with was not very impressive, and people looking at it probably
dismissed him as a nut. Later, though, he came out with a still not
particularly well-written, but much more convincing set of materials
which I believe that Aileen might have copies of there, and we can
certainly get some copies distributed to you people, if you're
interested in it, in which he tells the story in greater length. He
talks about being taken to a hospital, having things implanted in his
brain, hearing of voices. Now I must say that even though this sounds
like the story of an absolute Loony Tune, I know for a fact that this
sort of thing does occur -- I mean, is technologically possible --
there was a scientist named Allen Fray in the late 60's, early 70's,
who discovered that you can induce, with microwaves, voices in the
brain -- that you can actually hear.

As always, with these things, you only get the first experimentations
along these lines, the first successful notes of what was happening
and then of course, it's all clamped down, you don't get any more
information on follow-up experiments. But we do know, at least from
the early work, that people were able to hear things, directly
perceived words, as spoken over a microphone, directly in their
mind... not just through the ears or anything like that. Which makes
me look twice whenever I hear about people who claim to be hearing
voices. Because I know that that is a classic symptom of schizophrena,
but many of these people are also extremely hypnotizable.

Classic schizophrenics are not easily hypnotizable, yet these people
are. They fall into a separate category, and I'm wondering if the
voices that they hear, if they too might be -- it's a possibility
among other possiblities, let's put it that way -- if these people are
also possible subjects of this sort of experimentation.

Anyway, getting back to Kosky -- I won't tell you his entire story,
because I think it would be better if you read it entirely -- he talks
about being kidnapped and taken to a hospital and given what he called
"spy training". Much of his descriptions of what happened to him in
the hospital I think are quite incorrect, but who knows what happened
to his mind during those times.

I do know that of the released MK-ULTRA papers from the 50's and the
60's many of the absolute worst atrocities being committed by the CIA
-- they were trying to invade the space between people's ears -- were
in fact taking place in Canada.

So, it's entirely likely that these things will be happening in
Canada. Don't think that simply because Kosky points the finger at the
Royal Canadian Mounted Police, doesn't really mean that the CIA or
some other government agency isn't behind it. In fact, some of what
I've read has indicated that the government agency that is now most
involved in the mind control experimentation is called DARPA. And I've
also just recently come across some information that NASA, of all
people, of all places, I don't know why, is possibly, just possibly
involved with that. There is whole story I can tell you along those
lines.

One of the things that Kosky was told after he got away from the
hospital and after he was trying to re-establish his sanity after
these terrible experimentations that were done to him, he was told
that the people talking to him were from Sirius. Now, this is one of
the best links I have between the mind control technology and the UFO
abduction phenomenon. That this is a victim of mind control claiming
that he knows that the controllers were using UFOs or aliens as a
cover story for their operations. He was even more explicit in his
original pamphlet. Where he was saying that: "The test program
fluctuates from spying education to meeting humanoids from other
planets, people from Mars and Sirius, if you are a religious person,
you can even talk to the Lord."

So, in other words, they find out exactly how your personality is
structured, and then they will assume a persona to meet that, which
also makes me look at these people who claim to be hearing voices from
Jesus or from Satan. I know recently there was a rash of people
hearing the voice of Satan, I think it was a group of teenagers out in
Tennessee. And they progressed from -- they were committing horrible
atrocities --first they were watching these terribly violent
videotapes which for some reason are now being made available to
teenagers, including videotapes of actual deaths and then the voices
told them to start torturing and murdering small animals, until
finally they actually murdered one of their numbers.

Well, I know that this sounds like an outrageous story and possibly
not connected to what I am saying, but in fact it is connected because
that was one of the ways they trained -- one of the primary, I should
say, motivations for the entire mind control technology as we know it
from the papers in the 50's and the 60's, was to train people to
commit assassinations. And this is why I am very frightened whenever
an abductee -- and I've had a couple come up with this now -- start
talking about guns. In fact, you know, in that very same abduction
hypnotic session where we are talking about her abduction, she said
that the entities had told her to bring a gun to Martin (!), which did
not exactly make me feel very good, I mean I really don't know what
was behind that, but I must say that I've rather limited my contact
with that woman ever since.

Now I should say, where was I -- oh yes -- again, I'm not used to
giving a lecture to large numbers of people whom I can't see, so I'll
probably be flitting from one thing to another, but anyway, I do have
documents which prove that that was the ultimate goal, to get people
to commit atrocities without any emotions, without any affect. That
was the primary purpose, and the way they did it was first to
desensitize people. There was a doctor named Nereut, who I think in
1974 spilled the beans to the London Times saying that he was
performing these kinds of experimentations on soldiers of the Green
Berets and Navy Seals, and other Special Forces, and they were taught
under hypnosis, and sometimes not under hypnosis to desensitive
themselves to violence, usually through a series of films, and then
you would progress from that to not caring if you tore the head off a
chicken. And then you were told that the enemy was less than subhuman
and so you would go out there and commit unbelievable atrocities
which, if you dig into it, you know were committed in Vietnam.

And then, according to the some of the people who claim to be mind
control victims that I've spoken to, you can be hypnotized into
forgetting that you committed the atrocities, and this is actually
quite beneficial, because you don't want that sort of thing on your
memory, you just won't be able to function. I spoke directly to -- I
can't give his name -- and I know that it would be very difficult for
me to convince your people of the truth of what he said. All I know is
that I sat directly across from him in the room. And I met him almost
by coincidence, I was interviewing him on another subject and told him
I was interested in mind control and he said this had happened to him.

He gave me specific examples of things that occurred with him in the
1960's, how he was put through this sort of program. Much of what he
described as to how this -- not just the mind control, he knew the
technology involved, he knew many of the terms involved, he would have
to do a great deal of studying in order to have gotten this
information. And he talked about the way that these sort of secret
missions would be directed out of a Naval intelligence ship, which I
knew from other sources to be absolutely true. So I believed what he
had to say to me, in other words. And he fingered the Veterans
Administration hospital out here in Northridge as one place where they
continue to have scientists operate in these capacities. And that was
very interesting to me, because I later have, and I just now had an
abductee tell me that she had memories of something terrible happening
at that very same Veterans Administration hospital.

So that all fits together, again, I'm telling you this to explain to
you why I believe what I believe. I don't necessarily have all of the
facts and that I can put it in a book and prove it, but I have enough
that definitely my suspicion is raised. Now you may ask about
implantations, the scars that Budd Hopkins will show you photographs
of, and these implanations, intracerebreal implantations which are
just now beginning to show up in MRI scans on contactee's. I've just
now made friends with a woman out in Lancaster, who is studying
abductees who claims to have gotten alot of these MRI scans definitely
having "bogies" showing up on them.

Again, this was a part of the technology. There was a book published
in 1968, I believe, called _Were We Controlled_ by a man with the
psuedonym of Lincoln Lawrence, and I would suggest that you people
read that. Now this is a book obstensibly about the John F. Kennedy
assassination, looking into the possibility, and this has been raised
by a number of people, outrageous as the possibility may seem, that
Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald were somehow hypnotically programmed
to do what they did. To tell you the truth, although I am willing to
accept any number of unusual possibilities, I am not entirely
convinced of that. However, I know for a fact that much of the
information given in that book regarding the CIA's and the Defense
Department's mind control program is right on target, because it
checked out with material that was released only about fifteen years
later, or ten years later, under Freedom of Information.

Lincoln Lawrence had to have, and I know that he was in fact an FBI
agent, and therefore probably did have the sort of connections. He had
to have connections to people who were in the know as to the
technology involved. And the technology that he fingers, and it's come
up in a couple of other sources, again we don't have actual internal
government documentation on this, unfortunately just yet, but the
technology that he fingers is something called Radio Hypnotic
Intracerebreal Control, that coupled with another technology called
EDOM, Electronic Dissolution Of Memory. And basically, EDOM is nothing
more or less than "missing time", exactly what Budd Hopkins talks
about. Making people forget what they've done for the past two or
three hours. According to Lincoln Lawrence, and I'm tending more and
more to believe him, that is a technology that we, not the aliens, but
we have had in our hands for my goodness, twenty, thirty years
perhaps. Similarly, Radio Hypnotic Intracerebreal Control is a
technology which, even in its most primitive form, according to some
of the Russian literature mentioned in Lincoln Lawrence's book, and
again I gave a copy to Aileen there, goes back to the 1930's. And that
has to do with alot of arcane subjects -- implantations, intracerbreal
implantations in the brain.

By sending electronic pulses to these intracerebreal implantations,
you can train the frequencies of the brain to a point of hypnotic
suggestibility, and then voices, which can be, as I mentioned earlier,
which can be placed into the brain will act as a sort of remote
hypnotist. One that has a far greater suggestibility than an actual
hypnotist that you might pay money to go see. And this is somebody who
can make you believe that you are seeing -- when this is happening to
you they can make you believe that you are seeing, or have seen, if
they want to erase a previous memory, say a van that kidnapped you,
when in fact they might tell you that it was a UFO that kidnapped you.
Or, as another story that I got from an abductee...

He had this strange memory of -- you know, he was talking about his
abduction, and how he climbed into this saucer-shaped craft. But you
know, just before the saucer-shaped craft appeared in his mind he has
this strange memory that there was this truck in there, and that the
same guy who was on the craft was in that truck, and he couldn't quite
put the two together. Well, you know, I heard this from Budd Hopkins
once. He said that there was an abductee he talked who said that there
was, you know when he was abducted, that at first he thought it was a
helicopter, or some sort of helicopter that grabbed him and took him
up into the air.

No, it couldn't have been that -- what it was, was this UFO -- and so,
Budd Hopkins is saying well obviously the helicopter was the screen
memory for this terrible UFO experience.

Possibly, but the possibility that I'm looking into is, what if it
really was a helicopter and it was a UFO that was an induced screen
memory, possibly induced by this technology that I'm looking into
called Radio Hypnotic Intracerebreal Control, RHIC. There was a Doctor
named Jose Delgado, still working today, who wrote a book called
_Physical Control of the Mind: Towards a Psycho-Civilized Society_.

These implants that everybody are talking about -- people are thinking
that only a highly advanced technology such as the aliens could come
up with. Well, Delgado was in business as early the late 1950's, he
put these implants in a bull in a Spanish bull-ring, and had the bull
charge him, and then he pushed a button on a box, it was like the same
sort of box you would get with a radio-controlled airplane. He pushed
a button --and there are photographs of this that I can show you --
with the bull like just a few feet in front of him and ready to gore
the guy to death -- came to a complete stop. Pushed another button,
the bull walks away. Now if that can happen to animals in the 50's why
can't it be happening to abductees?