From an95574@anon.penet.fi Wed May  4 21:30:10 EDT 1994
Article: 2796 of alt.backrubs
Message-ID: <002302Z05051994@anon.penet.fi>
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From: an95574@anon.penet.fi
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Reply-To: an95574@anon.penet.fi
Date: Thu,  5 May 1994 00:18:40 UTC
Subject: Erections during therapeutic massage
Lines: 17


Could some of the professionals out there share their insights with me
about men who have erections during therapeutic massage?  I'm just
starting out and this has happened twice already.  While I understand it's
a natural occurence, I'm curious as to how common it is, what other
therapists do about it (assuming they do anything at all); what a
"professional" response is (one that honors my own boundaries yet
alleviates the male client's possible discomfort/embarrassment).  

Thanks.


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From djade  Sat May  7 08:49:03 EDT 1994
Article: 2810 of alt.backrubs
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From: djade 
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Erections during therapeutic massage
Date: Fri, 6 May 94 23:24:21 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
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Hello.
It seems the question was one about the male client
getting an erection while being massaged. Tho not a
professional masseuse - when I have given massages to
female friends (I am male), it does turn me on and
I get aroused as well. I wonder if females giving massages
also get turned on.     Re the quesiton about how to
deal with the client getting turned on, I think that
perhaps just ignoring it or some sort of friendly
comment, not inviting but just friendly, might be
the way to deal with it.
 
David
djade@delphi.com
djade@delphi.com
 
 


From Bill_Arnett@mindlink.bc.ca (Bill Arnett) Sat May  7 08:49:40 EDT 1994
Article: 2814 of alt.backrubs
Path: falcon.ccs.uwo.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!deep.rsoft.bc.ca!mindlink.bc.ca!a9348
From: Bill_Arnett@mindlink.bc.ca (Bill Arnett)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Erections during therapeutic massage
Date: Sat, 07 May 94 02:22:59 -0700 (PDT)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
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A shy person writes:
>
> Could some of the professionals out there share their insights with me
> about men who have erections during therapeutic massage?  I'm just
> starting out and this has happened twice already.  While I understand
> it's
> a natural occurence, I'm curious as to how common it is, what other
> therapists do about it (assuming they do anything at all); what a
> "professional" response is (one that honors my own boundaries yet
> alleviates the male client's possible discomfort/embarrassment).


Good question.  Normally I don't reply to anonymous posts, but I'll
make an exception...

I don't know how common it is.  I haven't worked on very many men.
And it probably occurs less often when the work is being done by a
man.  It's never happened.

I would say that the best thing would be to ignore it.  One thing you
don't say is how *you* feel about it.  Embarrassed? Uncomfortable?...
What are "your own boundaries"?  If the guy seems embarrassed, you
could just tell him to relax, that you are used to it.  (even if you
aren't).

And don't assume that the guy expects anything (if he does, he's out
of luck, isn't he?) or that the erection was "intentional".  Massage
releases a lot of tension and some of it is sexual.  Combine that with
most men being unfamiliar with such caring touch (outside of their
sexual relationships) and he's not always going to be able to "switch
it off."

I've had lots of massages and given lots.  It's certainly not a sexual
experience for me (except if the massage involves a lover) but I sometimes
do have an erection.  It's a combination of emotions, tension, and the
movement of the cover sheet.  It lasts for a while until I start to
relax.... It's never been commented upon.

Cheers.  Bill.
--
Bill_Arnett@mindlink.bc.ca
PO Box 32593, Aberdeen Centre P.O., Richmond, BC.  V6X 3S1



From haggis@netcom.com (John R. Haggis) Sat Jul  2 08:59:06 EDT 1994
Article: 3143 of alt.backrubs
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!ddsw1!a2i!gothic.rahul.net!haggis
From: haggis@netcom.com (John R. Haggis)
Subject: Re: Erections
Message-ID: 
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Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 16:50:04 GMT
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In article <2uv7nq$qq3@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> smart@thule.lkg.dec.com (Ryan J. Smart) writes:
>        From what I understand, erections are caused (on a purely 
>        functional level) by the relaxing of certain muscles and 
>        tissues in the groin areas to accomodate blood flow into 
>        the penile tissues.

Sorry, Ryan;  Got your physiology 180 degrees reversed, but your conclusion is 
still valid.

Erection is caused by selective increase in parasympathetic tone to the smooth 
muscle surrounding the exit veins of the penis.  The pressure increases in the 
exit veins (note:  doesn't close off completely!) and because the input 
pressure in the arteries stays the same, the penis accumulates blood.

Parasympathetic refers to the autonomic nervous system - increased nerve 
output causes the smooth muscle (again, unconscious control) to contract.

Autonomic nervous output is affected only indirectly by relaxation, but there 
is a definite connection.  Physical relaxation brings on certain states of 
mental relaxation.  I'm a little hazy here about the neuro-physiological 
details, but it *is* well-defined (I've read articles).  E.g., there is a 
phase of sleep/waking where generalized increased parasympathetic tone causes 
erections in men while just waking up.  Ever have this happen?  Many 
wives/s.o.'s get jealous and accuse the man of having erotic dreams about 
someone else...  when actually it's just a neuro-physiological event.

So, I bet the same thing happens in relaxation states during/following a good 
massage!

IMHAMO...      ("Amateur Medical" Opinion...)

- JohnR        (haggis@netcom.com)



From zerkle@cs.ucdavis.edu Tue Jun 21 12:03:45 EDT 1994
Article: 3083 of alt.backrubs
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!toadflax!zerkle
From: zerkle@toadflax.cs.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle)
Subject: Re: Erections
Message-ID: 
Sender: usenet@ucdavis.edu (News Guru)
Reply-To: zerkle@cs.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of California, Davis
References: <2tvkr8$98t@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 1994 17:26:37 GMT
Lines: 31

In article <2tvkr8$98t@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu> rosekim@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Rose Lee Kim) writes:
>I gave a friend of mine (platonic) a backrub recently. During this backrub
>he became sexually aroused! This caused him a fair bit of embarrasement, I
>told him not to worry about it but as we haven't had a sexual relationship
>I think it a very shocking occurance for him. Is there a way to avoid this
>from occuring? We are friends but not lovers, and we wish to remain that
>way.

I think you've got the right idea.

Erections can and do occur in men who are not aroused.  It's just a
matter of the blood collecting in certain places.  Some men will often
get erections just from waking up in the morning!  Certainly, the
stages of relaxation reached from a good massage could have a similar
effect.  In short, he might not actually be sexually aroused.
Sometimes, erections just happen.

Your friend's biggest worry is going to be about embarrassing you or
giving you the wrong ideas about his feelings.  If the situation truly
does not bother you, then he won't have anything to worry about.  Explain
that you are not worried about it.  If you want to tease him a bit, tell
him that you'll take it as a compliment if it ever happens again.

Once you explain that you don't care, he'll stop worrying about it.
If you have trouble talking about it, just make a printout of this note
and show it to him.

--
Dan Zerkle  zerkle@cs.ucdavis.edu
GCS d(---)(!) p- c++ !l u++ e++(+++) m s++/-- !n h+(--) f g+++(-) w+ t+ r(-) y+
You call some place "Paradise" -- Kiss it goodbye.


From vdesai@cassandra.cair.du.edu Fri Jul  1 22:59:27 EDT 1994
Article: 3138 of alt.backrubs
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
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From: vdesai@cassandra.cair.du.edu (MICK)
Subject: Re: Erections
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@du.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Denver
References: <2uv7nq$qq3@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 21:12:48 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <2uv7nq$qq3@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> smart@thule.lkg.dec.com (Ryan J. Smart) writes:
>
>	From what I understand, erections are caused (on a purely 
> 	functional level) by the relaxing of certain muscles and 
>	tissues in the groin areas to accomodate blood flow into 
>	the penile tissues.
>
>ryan

Methinks you may be mistaken.  It's the other way around, an erection is
caused by contraction of various tissues that prevent blood flow from 
leaving the penis.  While relaxation may (for some) be conducive to a state
of sexual arousal, it is not the direct reason for the aforementioned 
erection.

--MICK    
-- 
*************************************************************************
*        "The way of truth and love has always won."  -M. Gandhi        * 
*     Mickey Desai, Counseling Psycholgy, The University of Denver      *
*********************** vdesai@diana.cair.du.edu ************************


From Bill_Arnett@mindlink.bc.ca (Bill Arnett) Wed Jun 22 07:21:36 EDT 1994
Article: 3093 of alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!deep.rsoft.bc.ca!mindlink.bc.ca!a9348
From: Bill_Arnett@mindlink.bc.ca (Bill Arnett)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Erections
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 94 19:53:36 -0700 (PDT)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
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Distribution: world
Message-ID: <47314@mindlink.bc.ca>
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In article <2tvkr8$98t@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>,
rosekim@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu (Rose Lee Kim) writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <2tvkr8$98t@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>
> Posted: 18 Jun 1994 16:18:48 -0400
>
> Org.  : Tallahassee Free-Net
>
> I gave a friend of mine (platonic) a backrub recently. During this
> backrub
> he became sexually aroused! This caused him a fair bit of embarrasement,
> I
> told him not to worry about it but as we haven't had a sexual
> relationship
> I think it a very shocking occurance for him. Is there a way to avoid
> this
> from occuring? We are friends but not lovers, and we wish to remain that
> way.
>
>
> --
>
> Rose......................................................................
> ..
> /....../ rosekim@freenet.scri.fsu.edu /..................................


Well, it probably wasn't shocking for him as much as embarrasing.
Erections
are not uncommon even in a professional situation.  Being friends (but not
lovers) could heighten the sexual tension somewhat.  The erection is a sub-
conscious reaction.  Deciding on a conscious level to remain platonic will
not prevent the erection.  If you aren't bothered by his erection then it's
not a problem---*you* have the power to set him at ease: just be open about
it.  Don't try to ignore it.  Just tell him you aren't bothered by it, that
you realize it's not something he can control completely.  Tell him not to
worry about it.  Who knows....this could result in a very close friendship
by creating an openess about something normally considered private.

And as the local radio "sex show" hostess would say: "Just because you
have an erection doesn't mean you have to use it."

As long as you are both agreed on what it does or doesn't mean and what it
is or isn't going to lead to, then you shouldn't have a problem.

Cheers.  Bill.
--
Bill_Arnett@mindlink.bc.ca
PO Box 32593, Aberdeen Centre P.O., Richmond, BC.  V6X 3S1



From an103239@anon.penet.fi Mon Jun 27 18:50:32 EDT 1994
Article: 3114 of alt.backrubs
Message-ID: <192214Z27061994@anon.penet.fi>
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: an103239@anon.penet.fi
X-Anonymously-To: alt.backrubs
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Reply-To: an103239@anon.penet.fi
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 1994 18:04:40 UTC
Subject: Re: Erections
Lines: 14

In a previous article .....

I had it happen to me when a female friend gave me a backrub, I was wearing
boxers. She just pulled down the boxers and massaged my throbing member. It
was a amazing sensation...no sex and she had full control. I felt it relieved
the tension of having a erection as she just treated it like the rest of the
body.


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From LIPSCHOJ@ccmail.orst.edu (Jim Lipschorken) Thu Apr 29 16:47:40 EDT 1993
From: LIPSCHOJ@ccmail.orst.edu (Jim Lipschorken)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Breast Massage
Date: 29 Apr 1993 17:07:51 GMT
Organization: Consulting
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.193.214.70

In article <1993Apr29.140504.527@nntp.nta.no> BARANSKI@veamf1.nusc.navy.mil (Jim Baranski) writes:
>From: BARANSKI@veamf1.nusc.navy.mil (Jim Baranski)
>Subject: Breast Massage
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 14:05:04 GMT
>In  LIPSCHOJ@ccmail.orst.edu writes:
>
> Having a nude class of massage enthusiasts opened the gateway to
> discussing other irressolvible, preference based, topics like breast massage
>
>A question I've had that I'd like some opinions on:  What strokes for breast
>massage work for you?  How do (male) LMT's handle (sick!) issues around
>massaging breasts?  Seeing that there is little/less muscle, what are the
>benifits?
>
>Jim.

I'm *not* an LMT, but I do play on TV...

Seriously, I have gone through about six months of a two year LMT program,
and I hang with a few LMTs and have some interest in acupuncture and
chi-kung which have some degree of overlap.

The primary benefit of massaging the breasts is relaxation.  It allows
you to avoid unneccessary draping, and allows smoother effleurage
and transitions which can be made awkward by avoiding the breasts.

This is a key point, it is not that you concentrate on the breasts, it
is just that you do not avoid them and integrate them into the massage.

If a woman is uncomfortable with having her breasts massaged, there is not
point to it, the relaxation component is lost.

The "Swedish" massage which was taught in the LMT program had two types of
breast massage, one was effleurage on the sides of the breast, sweeping up
and down the torso, and on the inside and outside of the breasts.  The other
was a "cup and roll" procedure involving gently cupping the breasts and
rolling them in small circles.

Even in the context of the class, some women were uncomfortable with
having their breasts touched.  Some women, however, would ask you to
do more, it's an individual thing.

BTW, at that time the draping standards and rules involving breast massage
for the LMT exam were ambiguous enough that the instructors *strongly*
advised using a male subject for the practicum portion of the exam.

One thing that I have noticed is that particularly with LMT's interested
in traditional Vedic and Chinese medicine, massage takes place on several 
levels.

1.	Swedish massage, heavy draping standards, no breast contact.
	This is the general and most public service offered.

2.	Swedish massage with some Vedic, Shiatsu, Acupuncture Theory
	or other techniques mixed in, less or no draping.  This is
	generally offered to clients who express a specific interest
	in these things.

3.	Mixed massage, no draping, may involve bathing and/or contact
	to "forbidden" regions of the body.  Almost never offered to 
	clients, but to friends and fellow massage artists.

4.	Mixed massage involving some Tantric or other "sacred sex"
	traditions, which can involve direct massage of the sex
	organs, but is not necessarily solely sexual in intent.
	Usually offered to lovers, never to clients, sometimes to
	close friends/fellow LMTs.

Although, #4 is never done for pay, since this could get one arrested for
prostitution, it *does* occur, and is not necessarily directly sexual.

An example of this is the Tantric massage of the sexual organs which is
done *not* to pridcue orgasm (although this can happen), but to produce
a profound relaxation.

An example of #4 of was related to me by a friend who is a male LMT, who was
trading massages with a female LMT who was *not* his lover.  Both of them
were nude, and when he turned onto his back he found he had a *huge*,
almost painful, embarassing erection.  Rather than ignoring it, she gently
massaged his penis until the erection subsided.  Somewhere along the
way he did orgasm, but he did *not* consider it to be the same as
just being masturbated.  It was profoundly relaxing rather than profoundly
sexually satisfying.

Sorry to shock anyone here, but these things *do* happen in the real world.

The thing that fascinates me is there are distinct differences between
this kind of sexual contact and eros/promiscuity.  It is almost similar
to the way in which nudists can be the *worst* sexual prudes.

Jim



	


From an200558@anon.penet.fi Wed May 24 07:44:42 EDT 1995
Article: 6339 of alt.backrubs
Message-ID: <064338Z24051995@anon.penet.fi>
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!anon.penet.fi
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
From: an200558@anon.penet.fi
X-Anonymously-To: alt.backrubs
Organization: Anonymous forwarding service
Reply-To: an200558@anon.penet.fi
Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 06:36:16 UTC
Subject: Need help with an erection question- seriously
Lines: 38



I have a question ?  First some background info.  I have been seeing
an LT for 3-4 months for help with an injury that occured while biking.
I had an accident that caused a lot of damage in my right leg and groin.
I had a cast on after this accident for a number of months.

Anyway into the future.  This LT has done some great work freeing up the
hip joint and I have been able to enjoy riding again.  Today,  he was
doing some work on my groin and pelvis area and he started to massage the
pubic bone.  While doing this,  his hand was also hitting the base of my
penis.  At first,  this hurt,  but as the muscles in the public area
started to relax,  it started to feel good,  maybe too good.  I started to
get an erection.  I was not embarrassed by this-  I had no control over it
and my LT is a man,  so I figured he would understand.  At the end of the
session (after I paid him)  he asked if I would sit and talk with him.
He told me that his training says that if a patient gets aroused to stop
immediately and terminate the relationship.  I assured him that I do not
find him in anyway sexually actractive,  and that the erection came from
the motion and the pressure,  and was physiological.  I then asked him if
he had a problem with this and he said that he thought that I was not
looking for sex,  but for help.  I assured him that one could buy a 
 hooker for 3 hours for what he charges for one,  so if I was looking for
sex,  I certainly would spend that thype of money.  I then ask him if this
fear of me getting another erection was going to interfere with his ability
to help me in my pelvis and hip/groin areas... and if so should we
terminate the relationship.  I told him to think about it and i would
call him in a week to see what the answer is.  

So,  did he over-react,  or did I under-react ?  I cannot help what
happens to me if I am physically stimulated,  or can I ?

Anyone with advice,  please e-mail me.
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From pi314167@aol.com (Pi314167) Wed May 24 07:45:03 EDT 1995
Article: 6342 of alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e1a.megaweb.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: pi314167@aol.com (Pi314167)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Need help with an erection question- seriously
Date: 24 May 1995 06:56:11 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
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Reply-To: pi314167@aol.com (Pi314167)
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Sounds to me like your therapist either 1), isn't thinking, or 2) needs
some more education.   All MT's know that on occasion, males may have
spontaneous erections that are not related to sexual arousal. Also, in
nearly 10 years of practice, I have never had the need to "rub up against"
a clients penis. I often work the inguinal lig. and the psoas muscle,
without this happening. You might suggest that he try to be more careful
where he touches, (as some less understanding clients may be offended).

In my opinion, from what your story says, you did nothing wrong and he
needs to adjust his technique or adust his attitude.

Gary


From bartlett@amanda.dorsai.org (Chris Bartlett) Mon May 29 07:40:35 EDT 1995
Article: 6390 of alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!spool.mu.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!uhog.mit.edu!news.mtholyoke.edu!news.umass.edu!caen!lsa.umich.edu!pm002-16.dialip.mich.net!user
From: bartlett@amanda.dorsai.org (Chris Bartlett)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Need help with an erection question- seriously
Date: Sun, 28 May 1995 23:54:53 -1812
Organization: What's that?
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Message-ID: 
References: <064338Z24051995@anon.penet.fi> <3q2003$8qq@oban.cc.ic.ac.uk>
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There are obvious reasons why we are trained to be wary of sexual
responses in our clients, but I too think the therapist in this case would
overreact if he were uncomfortable.  I might have talked to you after the
session as well, but taken your word for what was happening, in the
absence of any obviously aggressive behavior on your part.  Also, there
are a lot of techniques for working this area that don't involve touching
the bottom of the pubic bone itself.

-- 
     Chris Bartlett
     Massage Therapist: Ann Arbor, Mi.
     bartlett@amanda.dorsai.org


From zaid@ip20_zaid.mti.sgi.com (Zaid Kadhim Salman) Thu Jun  8 13:52:58 EDT 1995
Article: 6502 of alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!spool.mu.edu!sdd.hp.com!sgigate.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!mti.sgi.com!ip20_zaid.mti.sgi.com!zaid
From: zaid@ip20_zaid.mti.sgi.com (Zaid Kadhim Salman)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: The other side
Date: 7 Jun 1995 23:02:47 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
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Distribution: world
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In article <3r4buu$o88@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, patk319@aol.com (PatK319)
writes:

|> 
|> Do others find that there is a relationship between becoming deeply
|> relaxed and erections?  Also, do you ever really get used to having an
|> erection in a massage?

I think you have to get used to not worrying about what the therapist
thinks about your little "problem". I always ask to be covered not because
I'm
embarassed about my erection, but because I don't want the therapist
to think something's askew. It also depends on where I am. If I'm getting
a massge at a naturist resort, I don't ask to be covered because I know the
therapist isn't going to freak out. If I'm at a joe-blow health
club, then I ask to be covered.

I have a hydrotherapy session coming up, and when I was scheduling it,
the person told me to bring  a pair of swimming trunks. I asked her
why that was and she said that therapists are more comfortable that way. I
asked
her if the women needed to wear anything and she said no. I concluded that
since the therapist is a female and I'm a male, that she might
be offended at the sight of a penis, not to mention an erect one.

I've never failed to get an erection during a massage. I think all the
touching
and warmth and intimacy causes them. It depends on what you get
out of the massage. If you just get sore muscles made better, then you
probably won't have a penile reaction. But if you derive a total body
experience from it, and if it's somewhat emotional, I think you'll
get a woody. 

I get massages because I need to be touched and I don't get touched
as much as I'd like because I'm not in a relationship. Thus, for me, the
massage is very emotionally releasing.



-- 
--Zaid K Salman                                  zaid@mti.sgi.com--
--Silicon Graphics, Inc.                   2011 N. Shoreline Blvd--
--tel: yeah right!                    P.O. Box 7311, M.S. 10U-552--
--fax: (415) 390-6174                     Mountain View, CA 94039--
--"I'm not PR, I'm not Marketing, I'm not Executive Management, "--
--"                and I DO NOT speak for SGI!                  "--



From robar17234@aol.com (RoBar17234) Fri Jun 16 10:16:42 EDT 1995
Article: 6565 of alt.backrubs
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From: robar17234@aol.com (RoBar17234)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Hypnosis and massage
Date: 15 Jun 1995 22:59:44 -0400
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To magnify the sensation and effects of massage, have a hypnotist give
suggestions to that effect.  If you want an erotic response, have the
hypnotist genitalize your whole body by suggestions the sensitivity of
your genitals will expnd to your whole body.  But be sure to tell the
massage therapist to go easy with the scalp massage.