From michael.youndt@satalink.com (Michael Youndt) Wed Sep 15 10:00:36 EDT 1993
Article: 1840 of alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!ub!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!ubos!satalink!michael.youndt
From: michael.youndt@satalink.com (Michael Youndt)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: "Back" chairs and circul
Message-ID: <1.203.1242.0N2796AB@satalink.com>
Date: 14 Sep 93 18:58:00 GMT
References: <1993Sep13.101602.480@cc.usu.edu>
Organization: DSC/Voicenet * Ivyland, PA * (215) 443-9434
Lines: 28

In response to nancyr@cc.usu.edu (Nancy Roberts)

N>My massage therapist recommended that I get one of those "back chairs"
N>that you sit/kneel on, for use while working at my computer. I called
N>a local furniture store, and the clerk told me that professionals,
N>ie., chiropracters and other doctors, are not recomending these chairs
N>for periods longer than 2-3 hours due to circulation problems that
N>result from pressure on the knee area. 
N>Does anyone know anything about this or have any thoughts on this?

 Nancy, I have used a chair like this for about 5 years now (I wore one 
out already!) my wife has used one for about 6 years, and we have had 
one at our home office for about 3 years. We have been very, very 
pleased with the comfort and lack of back and hip pain/discomfort. 
Needless to say, I sit at my desk almost 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 
plus about 1-1/2 hours at home sometimes 7 days a week. My wife was born 
with a dislocated hip that has been corrected surgically, but she still 
experiences much hip discomfort, owing to a "short" leg. She swears by 
this chair! I got mine from the _Backsavers_ company. I believe they are 
in Massachusettes. If you would like, I'll look for the address for mail 
order. I reccommend their product, it is well made. Beware of cheap 
versions that lack height adjusments. My guess is the store you 
contacted doesn't carry them and would rather sell you what they have in 
stock. As I say, I have had no problems nor have heard of any warnings 
about "circulation" problems. The chair distibutes your weight between 
your seat and your knees, but it does take a little getting used to, 
because it is different. I find the posture very natural. It is now 
almost uncomfortable for me to sit in a regular office chair! 


From csc8aaa@gps.leeds.ac.uk (A Adams) Wed Sep 15 10:01:04 EDT 1993
Article: 1841 of alt.backrubs
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!utnut!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!ousrvr.oulu.fi!csc8aaa
From: csc8aaa@gps.leeds.ac.uk (A Adams)
Subject: Re: "Back" chairs and circul
Message-ID: <1993Sep15.064847.14463@ousrvr.oulu.fi>
Sender: news@ousrvr.oulu.fi
Organization: University of Leeds, England
References: <1993Sep13.101602.480@cc.usu.edu> <1.203.1242.0N2796AB@satalink.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1993 06:48:47 GMT
Lines: 39

In article <1.203.1242.0N2796AB@satalink.com> michael.youndt@satalink.com (Michael Youndt) writes:
>In response to nancyr@cc.usu.edu (Nancy Roberts)
>
>N>My massage therapist recommended that I get one of those "back chairs"
>N>that you sit/kneel on, for use while working at my computer. I called
>N>a local furniture store, and the clerk told me that professionals,
>N>ie., chiropracters and other doctors, are not recomending these chairs
>N>for periods longer than 2-3 hours due to circulation problems that
>N>result from pressure on the knee area. 
>N>Does anyone know anything about this or have any thoughts on this?
>
> Nancy, I have used a chair like this for about 5 years now (I wore one 
>out already!) my wife has used one for about 6 years, and we have had 
>one at our home office for about 3 years. We have been very, very 
>pleased with the comfort and lack of back and hip pain/discomfort. 
>Needless to say, I sit at my desk almost 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 
>plus about 1-1/2 hours at home sometimes 7 days a week. My wife was born 
>with a dislocated hip that has been corrected surgically, but she still 
>experiences much hip discomfort, owing to a "short" leg. She swears by 
>this chair! I got mine from the _Backsavers_ company. I believe they are 
>in Massachusettes. If you would like, I'll look for the address for mail 
>order. I reccommend their product, it is well made. Beware of cheap 
>versions that lack height adjusments. My guess is the store you 
>contacted doesn't carry them and would rather sell you what they have in 
>stock. As I say, I have had no problems nor have heard of any warnings 
>about "circulation" problems. The chair distibutes your weight between 
>your seat and your knees, but it does take a little getting used to, 
>because it is different. I find the posture very natural. It is now 
>almost uncomfortable for me to sit in a regular office chair! 

I second the recommendation. I have one at home and have used it for 
a couple of years now. Not only does it help me when sitting in it, but
I have a better posture sitting in normal chairs. You do need good
padding on the knee rest though. I use an extra pillow.
-- 
TTFN, Zaphod (Two Heads, No Brain)*E-mail*csc8aaa@gps.leeds.ac.uk****
************************************snail*Flat 18,26 Brudenell Road**
**Happiness is  a  cigar ...*********mail*Leeds,LS6 1BD,UK***********
**shoved up a smoker's arse!**********Tel*UK-0532 789237*************


From michael.youndt@satalink.com (Michael Youndt) Mon Sep 20 10:54:14 EDT 1993
Article: 1846 of alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!ubos!satalink!michael.youndt
From: michael.youndt@satalink.com (Michael Youndt)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: "Back" chairs and circul
Message-ID: <1.210.1242.0N279712@satalink.com>
Date: 16 Sep 93 15:11:00 GMT
References: <1993Sep13.101602.480@cc.usu.edu>
Organization: DSC/Voicenet * Ivyland, PA * (215) 443-9434
Lines: 17


Nancy,

I found the address and number for Backsavers:

	Backsaver Products Corp.
	53 Jefferey Avenue
	Holliston MA  01746

	1-800-251-BACK

They have a neat catalog full of all kinds of comfortable-looking furn. 
As I said, I recommend the chair I use (I'm sitting on it now!). I have 
item #475 - pneumatic swivel. It comes it various colors, and is sturdy 
and well made.

Michael


From lynne@pobox.upenn.edu Sun Jan 16 08:27:21 EST 1994
Article: 2212 of alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!netnews.upenn.edu!pobox.upenn.edu!lynne
From: lynne@pobox.upenn.edu (Lynne Farrington)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Backsave products
Date: 16 Jan 1994 04:20:04 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <2haf9k$qn5@netnews.upenn.edu>
References: <2gs72v$15d@mailer.fsu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pobox.upenn.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

rose@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Kermit Rose) writes:
: I copied down the address for Backsave Products Corp,
: 
: as in Holliston, massachusetts, 01746 but do not have a street adress for
: them.  Does anybody here have the street address for Backsave products?
: 
: rose@garnet.acns.fsu.edu          To be sure I see your response, use e-mail.
:  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
: You may post, repost, or publish ANY communication received from me.

The address is:

  BackSaver Products Company
  53 Jeffrey Avenue
  Holliston, MA 01746

  Orders:  800-251-2225
  FAX:     800-443-9609

Note:  "BackSaver", not "Backsave"

Does anyone have any opinions of, or experiences with their chairs or
other products?


From landman@hal.COM (Howard Landman) Mon Jan 24 22:19:55 EST 1994
Article: 2245 of alt.backrubs
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From: landman@hal.COM (Howard Landman)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Backsave products
Date: 24 Jan 1994 17:45:28 -0800
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <2i1tjo$m2a@bang.hal.COM>
References: <1.203.1242.0N2796AB@satalink.com> <2haf9k$qn5@netnews.upenn.edu> <1994Jan16.140818.7003@julian.uwo.ca> <1994Jan21.135352.5679@julian.uwo.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bang.hal.com
Keywords: product-evaluation back chair posture health BackSaver commercial

In article <1.203.1242.0N2796AB@satalink.com>
michael.youndt@satalink.com (Michael Youndt) wrote:
>>Beware of cheap versions that lack height adjusments.
>>The chair ... does take a little getting used to, because it is different.

In article <1994Jan21.135352.5679@julian.uwo.ca>,
J. Blustein  wrote:
>	I bought a backchair yesterday, to try out.  ...
>Please tell me what I should be looking for to evaluate it. 

The original design for something like the back chair was called the
Balans Variabl.  Balans made many variations on this design; I've
test-sat perhaps 8 or 9 of them, as well as a number of imitations
including The Back Chair (TM).

I strongly prefer the Variabl to the Back Chair.  One of the main
advantages is that your knees, in the Variabl, are indiviually
supported.  If you twist in your chair, putting more weight on one
knee, the chair will "give" a bit in response.  The Back Chair, in
contrast, has a single rigid support for both knees, making it far
less comfortable in that regard.

Further, the Variabl had a curved bottom, so that it would rock
slightly as you shifted weight forward and back.  The Back Chair
has a flat bottom and might as well be bolted to the floor.

The only major negative for all chairs in this class is that they
can't pivot.  Depending on where you will be sitting and what you
will be doing, this may or may not be vitally important.  Balans
*did* make one or two chairs that pivoted, but in addition to being
more expensize, they felt less comfortable overall (to me) than the
Variable.  I think one of the models that pivoted was a variant of
the design they called Sculptura.

Most people switching to these chairs for the first time have some
minor discomfort in their knees for the first few days to perhaps
two weeks, especially if they use the chair heavily before getting
used to it.  I would recommend no more than 1 hour the first day,
going up by perhaps 1/2 hour per day until you can take 8 hours.
Back off if your knees still feel funny more than, oh, 30 minutes
after stopping use.

The Variable doesn't have height adjustments.  This has not been a
problem in the 10 or 20 years I've had it.

	Howard A. Landman
	landman@hal.com


From seghers@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (David Seghers) Wed Jan 26 12:59:55 EST 1994
Article: 2247 of alt.backrubs
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From: seghers@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (David Seghers)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Subject: Re: Backsave products
Date: 25 Jan 1994 23:34:06 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <2i4a9e$ib5@hprcl192.mayfield.hp.com>
References: <1.203.1242.0N2796AB@satalink.com> <2haf9k$qn5@netnews.upenn.edu> <1994Jan16.140818.7003@julian.uwo.ca> <1994Jan21.135352.5679@julian.uwo.ca> <2i1tjo$m2a@bang.hal.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: hprchq067.mayfield.hp.com
X-Newsreader: WinVN version 0.82

In article <2i1tjo$m2a@bang.hal.COM>, landman@hal.COM (Howard Landman) says:
>
>In article <1.203.1242.0N2796AB@satalink.com>
>michael.youndt@satalink.com (Michael Youndt) wrote:
>>>Beware of cheap versions that lack height adjusments.
>>>The chair ... does take a little getting used to, because it is different.
>
>In article <1994Jan21.135352.5679@julian.uwo.ca>,
>J. Blustein  wrote:
>>       I bought a backchair yesterday, to try out.  ...
>>Please tell me what I should be looking for to evaluate it. 
>

>Further, the Variabl had a curved bottom, so that it would rock
>slightly as you shifted weight forward and back.  The Back Chair
>has a flat bottom and might as well be bolted to the floor.
>

>        Howard A. Landman
>        landman@hal.com

My understanding about these chairs is that the *only* type which
is worthwhile is the type with the curved bottom.   The reason tor
this is that your center of gravity is always correct as it rocks, while
the type that is stationary can add more strain to the back and knees
that a regular chair.

I speak only from advice from a user who had tried both and dug into
the background a bit.  I can't use them at all due to old knee injuries :-(

David

All opinions are my own, only my own, and NOT those of any current, past,
or future employer or organization.

Your mileage *will* vary.


From jamie@uwo.ca Sun Feb 13 13:52:41 EST 1994
Article: 2344 of alt.backrubs
Path: falcon.ccs.uwo.ca!csd.uwo.ca!jamie
From: jamie@csd.uwo.ca (J. Blustein)
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs,comp.human-factors
Subject: SUMMARY Backsave products
Followup-To: alt.backrubs
Date: 13 Feb 1994 18:51:57 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <2jlssd$22@falcon.ccs.uwo.ca>
References: <1994Jan21.135352.5679@julian.uwo.ca> <1.203.1242.0N2796AB@satalink.com> <1993Sep15.064847.14463@ousrvr.oulu.fi> <1.210.1242.0N279712@satalink.com> <2haf9k$qn5@netnews.upenn.edu> <2i1tjo$m2a@bang.hal.COM> <2i4a9e$ib5@hprcl192.mayfield.hp.com>
Reply-To: jamie@uwo.ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: mccarthy.csd.uwo.ca
Summary: a summary of the mail I received about what to look for in a backchair
Keywords: product-evaluation back chair posture health BackSaver commercial
Xref: falcon.ccs.uwo.ca alt.backrubs:2344 comp.human-factors:7519

In article <1994Jan21.135352.5679@julian.uwo.ca> J. Blustein
 asked:
>       I bought a backchair yesterday, to try out.  [...]
>Please tell me what I should be looking for to evaluate it.

	Only one person responded with mail.  A summary of his advice
is below.  All of the posted responses appear in the alt.backrubs
archive (ftp:ftp.csd.uwo.ca//pub/news/alt.backrubs/back.chair.Z).  I
returned the chair.

	Here is the summary: the comfort of the chair is a subjective
call by the user.  The respondent said the best height for him was one
in which the seat is high enough so that he feels slightly "perched"
on the cushion, his back comfortably straight upright, knees on their
cushion high enough above the ground so that his lower legs point away
and down comfortably at about a 45 degree angle towards the floor.
-- 
James  Blustein                                        `Did you say "knives"?'
                                         `*Rotating* knives, yes.'


From rice@ssd.intel.com (Ken Rice) Sat Nov 19 08:09:15 EST 1994
Article: 4088 of alt.backrubs
Newsgroups: alt.backrubs
Path: newshost.uwo.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!ssd.intel.com!rice
From: rice@ssd.intel.com (Ken Rice)
Subject: Re: BALANCE CHAIR for the Back
Message-ID: 
Sender: usenet@SSD.intel.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: e03
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Division (SSD), Intel
References:  <3abnjn$clg@masala.cc.uh.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 1994 23:34:25 GMT
Lines: 13

I use one of those kneeling chairs in my workshop--I love
it there!  It puts me in great position for close detail
work on the bench (I build small musical instruments--guitars,
acoustic basses, etc.).  It also seems to be a position that
enhances my upper-body strength when I'm working with hard
woods and coarse operations.  I like the way that it allows me to 
shift to a variety of positions--it's quite flexible that way.

I've used it in the past for working at my computer, and 
didn't like it a lot for that--but it's PERFECT for the workshop!

	Ken