Subject: Old Roses
Date: 30 Mar 92 16:57:07 GMT
Here is a list of some of the main old rose varieties. I will follow it
up with a selection of roses from each group.
Species Roses
These plants are the ancestors of all of the roses. Species refers
to the plants as they have been found in the wild, un-changed and
un-hybridized. For the most part, species roses are single
petalled, and some are semi-double. The different varieties come
in yellow, pink, rose madder red, and white. They are also very
LARGE bushes, growing up to 50 feet or more. The Lady Banks rose
is an example of a species rose. Most of them only bloom once a
year.
Gallicas
The flowers of the gallicas are usually flat and fully double, the
bushes have few thorns, and they are easy to raise from seed. The
town of Provins, France, was for 600 years the center of a great
rose industry based on _R. gallica officinalis_ (Red Rose of
Lancaster) and some of its forms. This rose was believed to have
medicinal properties. The Empress Josephine collected gallica
roses for her garden in Malmaisson. Some of the roses in this
family date back to the 12th and 13th centurys. Most of them are
shades of rose madder and pink, and bloom only once in a season.
Damasks
This is the first old rose family to have ever-blooming flowers.
It is possible that this rose was brought to Europe by the Greek
traders in the main ports of the Mediterrainian between 800 and 600
B.C. The flowers are usually fully double, flowering in summer,
and then again in fall. They are said to be repeat bloomers,
instead of ever blooming. Their parentage is unknown, but it is
believed that they come from a cross of Rosa gallica and an
everblooming Asian species. An example of this rose family is
Autumn Damask, or "Quatre Saisons". The petals of this rose were
scattered under the feet of the Roman Emperors as they walked along
in public.
Centifolias
Centifolia means 'hundred petals', and these roses are the most
fully double of them all. The roses are very full, and the petals
divide into quarters within the flower. This rose dates back to
bout 410 B.C. These roses make good climbers. Most of the
centifolias bloom only once in spring.
Mosses
This large family of roses are called mosses because their stems
have thousands of tiny thorns on them, and even the flower bracts
are 'mossy' with thorns. The flowers are usually double, and bloom
in the spring. We had a moss rose, and the flowers were the most
intense pink/purple I have ever seen on any rose. It was beautful.
Portland
Developed in the middle of the 19th century, this rose family has
mostly ever-blooming or perpetual blooming roses. The first family
was produced in England at about 1800. The rose was named Duchess
of Portland, hence the name Portland roses. A good Portland rose
is Comte de Chambourd.
Bourbons
These roses came from a natural cross of a China rose and a damask
rose. The bushes are compact and the roses are fewer, but much
better flowers in the fall than the other rose families. This is
personally my favorite group of old roses. The flowers are very
double and globular shaped. They have a beautiful bloom in the
fall, and won't quit blooming until the frost kills them. Some
examples are Honorine de Brabant, La Reine Victoria, Madamme Isaac
Periere, and Souvenir de la Malmaison.
China Roses
It was with the introduction of the China roses to Europe that true
ever-blooming roses were developed. Portlands, Bourbons, and
perhaps even Damasks were produced by crossing them with China
roses. Although not very popular in the garden, these roses are
very important to the history of rose culture.
Some Available Old Roses
Species Roses
^
Rosa Foetida single petals yellow
Rosa foetida Persiana double flowers yellow
Rose foetida bicolor single orange
Mrs. Colville single red
Rosa pimpinellifolia "double white double flowers white
Rosa canina single pink
Kiftsgate single, rambler white
Alba Roses
Great Maiden's Blush fully double blush pink
Jeanne d'Arc fully double white
Rosa alba 'semiplena' semi-double white
Felicite Parmentier double pale pink
Gallica Roses
^
Rosa gallica semi-double rose madder
Rosa gallica versicolor double rose/white striped
Charles de Mills full double deep pink
Tuscany Superb full double fuchsia
Georges Vibert full double striped
Damask Roses
Rose de Rescht full double rose madder
Celsiana double pale pink
Madamme Hardy double white
Pink Leda double medium pink
Duchess de Montebello double palest pink
Leda double white/pink edges
Comte de Chambord double pink/lilac
Bourbon Roses
^
Honorine de Brabant double striped/lilac/white
Madame Isaac Pereire fully double rose madder
La Reine Victoria double, cupped med. pink
Boule de Neige double white
Madame Pierre Oger double pale pink
Souvenir de al Malmaison double/flat flesh pink
Ferdinand Pichard double red/white striped
Reine des Violettes double purple
Moss Roses
General Kleber double palest pink
Shailer's White Moss double white
William Lobb double lilac
Centifolia Roses
Tour de Malkoff double deep fushcia
Chapeau de Napoleon double pink
De Meaux double pale pink
Hybrid Musk Roses
^
Cornelia semi double pink
Ballerina single whtie & pink
Penelope semi double pale yellow
Nymphenburg semi double apricot pink
Rugosa Roses
Blanc Double de Coubert double white
Topaz Jewel double yellow
Reseraie de l'Hay doulbe med. pink
Linda Campbell double red
Alba single white
Fru Dagmar Hastrup single pink
Hansa double deep deep pink
Many of these may be found in Wayside Rose Catalog. Also, check your better
nurseries. Old roses are beginning to show up. I just found a good
speciman of "Souvenir de la Malmaison" for $7!!!!! What a find!
Re: Favorite Old Roses, Climbing Roses (rec.gardens)
Date: 5 Mar 92 18:24:28 GMT
I have just planted two old climbing roses I am very excited about -
SOMBREUIL: a tea rose, "capable of reaching great heights in a
sheltered garden," and whose "fragrance, shiny dark green foliage,
and spectacular creamy white flowers make this one of the most
beautiful and useful of all roses."
ZE'PHIRIN DROUHIN: a semi-double pink Bourbon, popular because the
canes are (really!) thornless.
Both of these are popular in the South, so should do well in the
Central Valley, but may be too tender for northern gardens. Also,
DORTMUND: a single red flower with white eye, said to have holly-
like foliage and good heat tolerance. I'd try it if I had more room.
All are highly rated and fairly disease resistant, though ZD may be
subject to mildew. The first two are available from Smith & Hawken,
the other is stocked by Berkeley Horticultural or try the usual suspects
(I can provide a list of old rose nurseries, if there is any demand.)
rec.gardens:
Subject: Re: Climbing Roses
Date: 6 Mar 92 01:21:20 GMT
>I'm looking for a good (actually I would love a *great*) climbing rose and
>was wonderingif anyone out there has a favorite variety
(You *do* know that no roses actually climb, like ivy, but some just throw
out extra-long canes ...)
Rosa moschata, R. moschata semiplena
Musk roses species, with single or fluffy semi-double blossoms respectively.
Grows to 50' if you let it. One longish blooming season in NJ, may be longer
out here (in Sac). Flowers are white. Scent is amazing.
Alchymist (occasionally Alchemist)
Buff yellow very full and quartered blossoms, with more or less pink in them
depending on how cold it is during bud formation. I'd expect no pink out
here. Grows to 20' in NJ that I've seen. Very long blooming season but not
quite "recurrent". Nice scent but not overpowering.
Rosa glauca (was R. rubrifolia)
Species rose listed as stopping at 8', but there is/was a specimen in WI that
stopped growing *up* at about 12' and thenceforth grew out, maybe 20' total.
No scent. Flowers are a pretty pink, single, narrowish petals so the blossom
is kind of star-shaped. Yellow stamens. The leaves are steel-blue with red
edging, and the stems and canes are claret. Flowering season is short, but
you don't grow it for the flowers.
Applejack
Grows to 10' or so. Recurrent. Single pretty pink flowers, with fatter
petals than R. glauca, so that it looks like a rose, not like a star. Flower
is unscented but foliage smells of apples. Drops petals neatly so the bush
is always pretty. This one is kind of hard to find, but is a real sweetheart.
La Belle Sultane
Grows to 10' or so. Medium blooming season. Single purple blossoms, shading
to lighter crimson inward, with bright yellow stamens. Nothing else remotely
like her, and a beauty.
If you'd like to see R. glauca, Alchymist, or La Belle Sultane, contact me
this summer or next year: I'm planting all three weekend after next, UPS
permitting. ;0)
Subject: Re: Old Roses
Date: 10 Jan 92 20:27:49 GMT
TK> >>There's a rose source in Texas that grows the old roses
TK> >>onto their own root system.
ANTIQUE ROSE EMPORIUM
Route 5, Box 143
Brenham, TX 77833
telephone: (409) 836-9051
They offer a color/b&w catalog for $2.00, containing a broad selection of
old garden roses, each well described, with a good deal of historical and
cultural information. Roses are grown on their own roots, selectedd for
fragrance and long bloom in Zones 6 and above. They also offer books for
rosarians. The minimum order is $10 and they also will ship to Canada.
rec.gardens:
Subject: Re: Old Roses
Date: 11 Jan 92 06:10:40 GMT
The catalog ($3) from
Heirloom Old Garden Roses
24062 Riverside Dr NE
St. Paul, OR 97137
comes highly recommended. I'm just sending away for mine, so I haven't seen
it yet, but one hardcore antique rose freak I know said he almost died when
he got his. He's not impressed easily.
Subject: Re: Antique Roses
Date: 27 Jan 92 22:37:15 GMT
I purchased the bare-root plants by mail-order from:
ROSES OF YESTERDAY & TODAY
802 Brown's Valley Road
Watsonville, CA 95076-0398
(408) 724-3537 or 2755
The informative catalog is $3 and describes the plants very well. However,
they will only mail the plants between the 1st of January until the end of
May. NOTE: When I purchased roses from them, they were all grafted onto
various rootstocks. Their is a mail-order source that sells UNGRAFTED
bare-root antique roses. It is:
ANTIQUE ROSE EMPORIUM
Route 5, Box 143
Brenham, TX 77833
(409) 836-9051
Their catalog is $2 and they also ship only from Jan. 1 to May 30. ALL
roses are grown on their own roots, selected for fragrance and long bloom
in Zone 6 and above.
Today, I learned of two additional sources for Old Garden Roses. They are:
VINTAGE GARDENS
3003 Pleasant Hill Road
Sebastapol, CA 95472
(1992 catalog - $1; 1993 catalog - $2)
and
HEIRLOOM OLD GARDEN ROSES
24062 N.E. Riverside
St. Paul, OR 97137
catalog - $3
Subject: Re: Antique Roses
Date: 29 Jan 92 19:05:34 GMT
(With Pickering's 1991-2 catalog at my elbow ...)
A number of old-fashioned roses do bloom recurrently. "Recurrently" is a
slightly strange word in the rose world. A "non-recurrent bloomer" blooms
for a month or two in June and July. A "recurrent bloomer" blooms then and
also at other times during the season. This may range from the February-to-
November bloomers to a rose, whose main season bloom having been religiously
dead-headed (the spent blooms cut off before they can make hips), will spit
out a couple more blooms in September or so. Bearing that definition in
mind, here's a quick survey of old-fashioned roses, with notes of *my* parti-
cular favorites:
Polyanthas originated about 1875. They are parents of the mini-roses. Most
are low growing, have large clusters of individual smallish blooms, and are
recurrent. I don't have any personal experience with these. The Fairy is
an extremely popular variety, blooming continuously with shell-pink flowers.
You might even be able to get The Fairy at local nurseries.
Hybrid Perpetuals originated about 1840. As their name implies, they are
among the first recurrent varieties. Their blossom production tends to be
a tad spotty after the initial flush. Mabel Morrison has an upright habit
and opaque white gardenia-like roses on extremely short stems. The blossoms
sit right in the leaves. Depending on the temperature at a crucial time in
the bud formation, some blossoms might be very lightly flushed with pink,
which results in a bush with some white roses and some very very pale pink
roses, or even a rose with a few very pale pink streaks in the whiteness.
Unfortunately, she has no scent.
Shrub roses don't fit any category very well, and many are quite modern
(which is why I use the term "old-fashioned" instead of "antique"). Many
are recurrent. Alchymist is listed as growing to 6', but every one I've
grown has had no problem sending canes out several yards. Depending on the
climate, the blossoms may be an antique gold or have pink-peach highlights
(the colder the winter, the more colorful the flower). The individual blooms
are enormous and quite fragrant. It is listed as non-recurrent, but in NJ
its season was close to three months.
Rosa rugosa is a species native to Japan, and many attractive hybrids are
mostly R. rugosa. The outstanding characteristics are coarse, heavily
"quilted" leaves, large, attractive hips, extreme winter hardiness, resis-
tance to disease, abundant thorns, continuous bloom, and tolerance of salt
(for beachside gardens). Dr. Eckener compares favorably with Alchymist in
vigor of growth. The blossoms are zoned yellow and bright pink, and are
semi-double (8-20 or so petals). Dr. E. is quite fragrant, and has truly
awesome thorns. Frau Dagmar Hartopp is a gem -- single, silky silver-pink
blossoms, and relatively low growing.
Alba roses are true antiques: Alba maxima was known in 1450. They are all
non-recurrent. They have bluish-grey leaves and the blossoms are either
white or pale pink. They are also winter hardy and fragrant. Madame Legras
de St. Germain has small white blossoms with just a hint of lemon well in-
side. She grows rather low and is literally smothered in blossoms in June
and July. The blossom petals are tiny and very abundant, and toss scent off
in buckets.
Bourbon roses were created accidentally as a cross between one of the
antiques (I forget which) and Rosa chinensis, which had just been imported
from (guess) China. R. chinensis is very tender, and some Bourbons are also
rather tender, needing the cosseting one has to give to hybrid teas. How-
ever, they have enough more of their antique genes to resist disease much
better than the H.T.'s. Some are recurrent, some not. I haven't grown any
of these yet, not having lived in a place before now where I wouldn't have
to baby them. But this year ...!
Centifolia roses are the big "cabbage" roses you see on old wallpaper. They
are very winter hardy, not recurrent, and extremely fragrant. The ones that
Pickering lists range from light to dark pink and mauve to scarlet and dark
purple. For some reason I haven't grown any of these either -- quite a gap!
Rosa chinensis varieties are quite tender, but recurrent. They tend to be
martyrs to black spot. Also, R. chinensis has contributed yellow to the
rose palette. As with the Bourbons, until this year I haven't lived where
I could grow these easily, so have no experience with them. Tipo Ideale,
also called Rosa Mutabilis, blooms pale yellow, and as the blossom ages, the
color darkens through orange to dark red. I've seen this rose in public
gardens and it is spectacular. I imagine the climber Joseph's Coat, whose
blossoms go through the same changes, has lots of the Rosa Mutabilis genes
in it. Archduke Charles blooms white, and the blossoms darken through pink
to a purplish red. A blooming bush of Charles is also quite stunning, and I
love to see someone else growing it. :o) The "Green Rose", Rosa chinensis
viridiflora, does not have real petals: the flower bracts are extended and
form green and brown blossom-like growths. I haven't seen this in person but
[rest of message missing]
Subject: Re: Old Roses
Date: 10 Jan 92 20:27:49 GMT
TK> >>There's a rose source in Texas that grows the old roses
TK> >>onto their own root system.
ANTIQUE ROSE EMPORIUM
Route 5, Box 143
Brenham, TX 77833
telephone: (409) 836-9051
They offer a color/b&w catalog for $2.00, containing a broad selection of
old garden roses, each well described, with a good deal of historical and
cultural information. Roses are grown on their own roots, selectedd for
fragrance and long bloom in Zones 6 and above. They also offer books for
rosarians. The minimum order is $10 and they also will ship to Canada.
Subject: Re: Old Roses
Date: 11 Jan 92 06:10:40 GMT
The catalog ($3) from
Heirloom Old Garden Roses
24062 Riverside Dr NE
St. Paul, OR 97137
comes highly recommended. I'm just sending away for mine, so I haven't seen
it yet, but one hardcore antique rose freak I know said he almost died when
he got his. He's not impressed easily.
Subject: Re: Antique Roses
Date: 27 Jan 92 22:37:15 GMT
I purchased the bare-root plants by mail-order from:
ROSES OF YESTERDAY & TODAY
802 Brown's Valley Road
Watsonville, CA 95076-0398
(408) 724-3537 or 2755
The informative catalog is $3 and describes the plants very well. However,
they will only mail the plants between the 1st of January until the end of
May. NOTE: When I purchased roses from them, they were all grafted onto
various rootstocks. Their is a mail-order source that sells UNGRAFTED
bare-root antique roses. It is:
ANTIQUE ROSE EMPORIUM
Route 5, Box 143
Brenham, TX 77833
(409) 836-9051
Their catalog is $2 and they also ship only from Jan. 1 to May 30. ALL
roses are grown on their own roots, selected for fragrance and long bloom
in Zone 6 and above.
Today, I learned of two additional sources for Old Garden Roses. They are:
VINTAGE GARDENS
3003 Pleasant Hill Road
Sebastapol, CA 95472
(1992 catalog - $1; 1993 catalog - $2)
and
HEIRLOOM OLD GARDEN ROSES
24062 N.E. Riverside
St. Paul, OR 97137
catalog - $3
Subject: Re: Antique Roses
Date: 29 Jan 92 19:05:34 GMT
(With Pickering's 1991-2 catalog at my elbow ...)
A number of old-fashioned roses do bloom recurrently. "Recurrently" is a
slightly strange word in the rose world. A "non-recurrent bloomer" blooms
for a month or two in June and July. A "recurrent bloomer" blooms then and
also at other times during the season. This may range from the February-to-
November bloomers to a rose, whose main season bloom having been religiously
dead-headed (the spent blooms cut off before they can make hips), will spit
out a couple more blooms in September or so. Bearing that definition in
mind, here's a quick survey of old-fashioned roses, with notes of *my* parti-
cular favorites:
Polyanthas originated about 1875. They are parents of the mini-roses. Most
are low growing, have large clusters of individual smallish blooms, and are
recurrent. I don't have any personal experience with these. The Fairy is
an extremely popular variety, blooming continuously with shell-pink flowers.
You might even be able to get The Fairy at local nurseries.
Hybrid Perpetuals originated about 1840. As their name implies, they are
among the first recurrent varieties. Their blossom production tends to be
a tad spotty after the initial flush. Mabel Morrison has an upright habit
and opaque white gardenia-like roses on extremely short stems. The blossoms
sit right in the leaves. Depending on the temperature at a crucial time in
the bud formation, some blossoms might be very lightly flushed with pink,
which results in a bush with some white roses and some very very pale pink
roses, or even a rose with a few very pale pink streaks in the whiteness.
Unfortunately, she has no scent.
Shrub roses don't fit any category very well, and many are quite modern
(which is why I use the term "old-fashioned" instead of "antique"). Many
are recurrent. Alchymist is listed as growing to 6', but every one I've
grown has had no problem sending canes out several yards. Depending on the
climate, the blossoms may be an antique gold or have pink-peach highlights
(the colder the winter, the more colorful the flower). The individual blooms
are enormous and quite fragrant. It is listed as non-recurrent, but in NJ
its season was close to three months.
Rosa rugosa is a species native to Japan, and many attractive hybrids are
mostly R. rugosa. The outstanding characteristics are coarse, heavily
"quilted" leaves, large, attractive hips, extreme winter hardiness, resis-
tance to disease, abundant thorns, continuous bloom, and tolerance of salt
(for beachside gardens). Dr. Eckener compares favorably with Alchymist in
vigor of growth. The blossoms are zoned yellow and bright pink, and are
semi-double (8-20 or so petals). Dr. E. is quite fragrant, and has truly
awesome thorns. Frau Dagmar Hartopp is a gem -- single, silky silver-pink
blossoms, and relatively low growing.
Alba roses are true antiques: Alba maxima was known in 1450. They are all
non-recurrent. They have bluish-grey leaves and the blossoms are either
white or pale pink. They are also winter hardy and fragrant. Madame Legras
de St. Germain has small white blossoms with just a hint of lemon well in-
side. She grows rather low and is literally smothered in blossoms in June
and July. The blossom petals are tiny and very abundant, and toss scent off
in buckets.
Bourbon roses were created accidentally as a cross between one of the
antiques (I forget which) and Rosa chinensis, which had just been imported
from (guess) China. R. chinensis is very tender, and some Bourbons are also
rather tender, needing the cosseting one has to give to hybrid teas. How-
ever, they have enough more of their antique genes to resist disease much
better than the H.T.'s. Some are recurrent, some not. I haven't grown any
of these yet, not having lived in a place before now where I wouldn't have
to baby them. But this year ...!
Centifolia roses are the big "cabbage" roses you see on old wallpaper. They
are very winter hardy, not recurrent, and extremely fragrant. The ones that
Pickering lists range from light to dark pink and mauve to scarlet and dark
purple. For some reason I haven't grown any of these either -- quite a gap!
Rosa chinensis varieties are quite tender, but recurrent. They tend to be
martyrs to black spot. Also, R. chinensis has contributed yellow to the
rose palette. As with the Bourbons, until this year I haven't lived where
I could grow these easily, so have no experience with them. Tipo Ideale,
also called Rosa Mutabilis, blooms pale yellow, and as the blossom ages, the
color darkens through orange to dark red. I've seen this rose in public
gardens and it is spectacular. I imagine the climber Joseph's Coat, whose
blossoms go through the same changes, has lots of the Rosa Mutabilis genes
in it. Archduke Charles blooms white, and the blossoms darken through pink
to a purplish red. A blooming bush of Charles is also quite stunning, and I
love to see someone else growing it. :o) The "Green Rose", Rosa chinensis
viridiflora, does not have real petals: the flower bracts are extended and
form green and brown blossom-like growths. I haven't seen this in person but
[rest of message missing]
Re: Favorite Old Roses
I thought I would talk about some of my favorite old roses (and a few
'new' ones). Many people ask me about them, and I will talk about the
ones I know about first-hand. All of these roses grew for me or my
mother, and I helped in keeping them healthy and happy.
First of all, let me tell you that I do not have a "rose garden" per se.
My roses live in the flower border with other perennials and annuals
planted in and around them. My aim is to grow a "perennial border" like
Christopher Lloyd, (my gardening hero), but so far it's a far cry from
Great Dixter.
1) Duchess de Brabant: Tea rose from 1857. Medium pink flowers,
cupped and free flowering. Flowers continuously, with it's best
bloom in the fall. The foliage is deep green with red undersides
on the leaves. This rose is my absolute favorite over all others,
and that is not an easy judgement to make. She grows well in full
sun, but is sensitive to freezing weather. My bush died down to
the ground this year, but it is coming back full swing, and already
has two buds!
2) La Reine Victoria: Bourbon rose, 1872. Lilac-pink blooms that
form perfect cups, even when fully open. Blooms continously. The
foliage is light green, and the bush is tall and slender, about
5 ft tall and 3 ft wide. My poor bush has seen a lot of wear and
tear. When it was rather large, I pruned it heavily and moved it
from my mothers garden to mine. She didn't bloom last year, and I
don't blame her for it. I moved her again this February to a
sunnier location, and she is growing vigorously right now.
3) Honorine de Brabant: Bourbon Rose, date unknown. This is one of
the old striped roses. The flowers are shades of pink and lilac
with purple markings on a large cupped flower. One of the few
striped roses to bloom continously. The plant is vigorous, with
few thorns. Foliage medium green and lush. My plant was brand new
last year but it grew very well.
4) Rose de Rescht: Portland rose, date unknown, discovered by Miss
Nancy Lindsay. Flowers are a rich fuchsia-red color and are
tightly formed into a perfect rosette, fully double. This rose has
the most regular and perfect blooms I've seen so far. It is a
small bush, medium green foliage, and it blooms all season long.
5) Rosa gallica versicolor (Rosa Mundi), Gallica rose of great
antiquity (over 500 years old). This rose is striped, semi-double
with deep rose madder red and white stripes. When it is in full
bloom, the bush looks like a huge peppermint bush! The bush is
very hardy and very lush. It blooms only in the spring, then the
foliage starts look poorly. Subject to blackspot -- but the spring
bloom is worth it all! I plant it among my other flowers so that
when the bloom is over, the bush is not an eyesore.
Re: Favorite Old Roses, Climbing Roses (from Usenet, rec.gardens)
Subject: Re: Climbing Roses
Date: 5 Mar 92 18:24:28 GMT
I have just planted two old climbing roses I am very excited about -
SOMBREUIL: a tea rose, "capable of reaching great heights in a
sheltered garden," and whose "fragrance, shiny dark green foliage,
and spectacular creamy white flowers make this one of the most
beautiful and useful of all roses."
ZE'PHIRIN DROUHIN: a semi-double pink Bourbon, popular because the
canes are (really!) thornless.
Both of these are popular in the South, so should do well in the
Central Valley, but may be too tender for northern gardens. Also,
DORTMUND: a single red flower with white eye, said to have holly-
like foliage and good heat tolerance. I'd try it if I had more room.
All are highly rated and fairly disease resistant, though ZD may be
subject to mildew. The first two are available from Smith & Hawken,
the other is stocked by Berkeley Horticultural or try the usual suspects
(I can provide a list of old rose nurseries, if there is any demand.)
Subject: Old Roses
Date: 30 Mar 92 16:57:07 GMT
Here is a list of some of the main old rose varieties. I will follow it
up with a selection of roses from each group.
Species Roses
These plants are the ancestors of all of the roses. Species refers
to the plants as they have been found in the wild, un-changed and
un-hybridized. For the most part, species roses are single
petalled, and some are semi-double. The different varieties come
in yellow, pink, rose madder red, and white. They are also very
LARGE bushes, growing up to 50 feet or more. The Lady Banks rose
is an example of a species rose. Most of them only bloom once a
year.
Gallicas
The flowers of the gallicas are usually flat and fully double, the
bushes have few thorns, and they are easy to raise from seed. The
town of Provins, France, was for 600 years the center of a great
rose industry based on _R. gallica officinalis_ (Red Rose of
Lancaster) and some of its forms. This rose was believed to have
medicinal properties. The Empress Josephine collected gallica
roses for her garden in Malmaisson. Some of the roses in this
family date back to the 12th and 13th centurys. Most of them are
shades of rose madder and pink, and bloom only once in a season.
Damasks
This is the first old rose family to have ever-blooming flowers.
It is possible that this rose was brought to Europe by the Greek
traders in the main ports of the Mediterrainian between 800 and 600
B.C. The flowers are usually fully double, flowering in summer,
and then again in fall. They are said to be repeat bloomers,
instead of ever blooming. Their parentage is unknown, but it is
believed that they come from a cross of Rosa gallica and an
everblooming Asian species. An example of this rose family is
Autumn Damask, or "Quatre Saisons". The petals of this rose were
scattered under the feet of the Roman Emperors as they walked along
in public.
Centifolias
Centifolia means 'hundred petals', and these roses are the most
fully double of them all. The roses are very full, and the petals
divide into quarters within the flower. This rose dates back to
bout 410 B.C. These roses make good climbers. Most of the
centifolias bloom only once in spring.
Mosses
This large family of roses are called mosses because their stems
have thousands of tiny thorns on them, and even the flower bracts
are 'mossy' with thorns. The flowers are usually double, and bloom
in the spring. We had a moss rose, and the flowers were the most
intense pink/purple I have ever seen on any rose. It was beautful.
Portland
Developed in the middle of the 19th century, this rose family has
mostly ever-blooming or perpetual blooming roses. The first family
was produced in England at about 1800. The rose was named Duchess
of Portland, hence the name Portland roses. A good Portland rose
is Comte de Chambourd.
Bourbons
These roses came from a natural cross of a China rose and a damask
rose. The bushes are compact and the roses are fewer, but much
better flowers in the fall than the other rose families. This is
personally my favorite group of old roses. The flowers are very
double and globular shaped. They have a beautiful bloom in the
fall, and won't quit blooming until the frost kills them. Some
examples are Honorine de Brabant, La Reine Victoria, Madamme Isaac
Periere, and Souvenir de la Malmaison.
China Roses
It was with the introduction of the China roses to Europe that true
ever-blooming roses were developed. Portlands, Bourbons, and
perhaps even Damasks were produced by crossing them with China
roses. Although not very popular in the garden, these roses are
very important to the history of rose culture.
Some Available Old Roses
Species Roses
^
Rosa Foetida single petals yellow
Rosa foetida Persiana double flowers yellow
Rose foetida bicolor single orange
Mrs. Colville single red
Rosa pimpinellifolia "double white double flowers white
Rosa canina single pink
Kiftsgate single, rambler white
Alba Roses
Great Maiden's Blush fully double blush pink
Jeanne d'Arc fully double white
Rosa alba 'semiplena' semi-double white
Felicite Parmentier double pale pink
Gallica Roses
^
Rosa gallica semi-double rose madder
Rosa gallica versicolor double rose/white striped
Charles de Mills full double deep pink
Tuscany Superb full double fuchsia
Georges Vibert full double striped
Damask Roses
Rose de Rescht full double rose madder
Celsiana double pale pink
Madamme Hardy double white
Pink Leda double medium pink
Duchess de Montebello double palest pink
Leda double white/pink edges
Comte de Chambord double pink/lilac
Bourbon Roses
^
Honorine de Brabant double striped/lilac/white
Madame Isaac Pereire fully double rose madder
La Reine Victoria double, cupped med. pink
Boule de Neige double white
Madame Pierre Oger double pale pink
Souvenir de al Malmaison double/flat flesh pink
Ferdinand Pichard double red/white striped
Reine des Violettes double purple
Moss Roses
General Kleber double palest pink
Shailer's White Moss double white
William Lobb double lilac
Centifolia Roses
Tour de Malkoff double deep fushcia
Chapeau de Napoleon double pink
De Meaux double pale pink
Hybrid Musk Roses
^
Cornelia semi double pink
Ballerina single whtie & pink
Penelope semi double pale yellow
Nymphenburg semi double apricot pink
Rugosa Roses
Blanc Double de Coubert double white
Topaz Jewel double yellow
Reseraie de l'Hay doulbe med. pink
Linda Campbell double red
Alba single white
Fru Dagmar Hastrup single pink
Hansa double deep deep pink
Many of these may be found in Wayside Rose Catalog. Also, check your better
nurseries. Old roses are beginning to show up. I just found a good
speciman of "Souvenir de la Malmaison" for $7!!!!! What a find!
Subject: Old Rose sources
Summary: list of nurseries
Date: 31 Mar 92 20:41:52 GMT
Disclaimer: this list is not exhaustive and may contain inaccuracies.
No endorsement of products or service is necessarily (known or) implied.
The two large growers suspected of conspiring to block free trade with
Canada have been deliberately omitted...
Antique Rose Emporium
Route 5, Box 143
Brenham, TX 77833
409 836-9051
catalog $2.00
Carroll Gardens
P.O. Box 310
Westminster, MD 21157
301 848-5422
Corn Hill Nursery
RR 5, Route 890
Petitcodiac, N.B.
E0A 2H0 Canada
506 756-3635
catalog $2.00
Country Bloomers Nursery
20091 E. Chapman Ave.
Orange, CA 92669
714 633-7222
Country Heritage Roses
Route 2, Box 1401
Scurry, TX 75158
214 452-3380
Earl May Seed & Nursery L.P.
Shenandoah, IA 51603
800 831-4193
Forest Farms
990 Tetherow Road
Williams, OR 97544
503 846-6963
catalog $1.50
Forevergreen Farm
70 New Gloucester Road
North Yarmouth, ME 04021
207 829-5830
catalog free
Greenmantle Nursery
3010 Ettersburg Road
Garberville, CA 95440
707 986-7504
Gurney Seed & Nursery
110 Capitol Street
Yankton, SD 57079
605 665-4451
Heirloom Old Garden Roses
Oregon
503 538-1576
Heritage Rosarium
211 Haviland Mill Road
Brookeville, MD 20833
301 774-2806
catalog $1.00
Heritage Rose Gardens
16831 Mitchell Creek Drive
Fort Bragg, CA 95437
707 964-3748
catalog $1.00
High Country Rosarium
1717 Downing at Park Ave.
Denver, CO 80218
303 832-4026
Historical Roses
1657 W. Jackson Street
Painesville, OH 44077
216 357-7270
Hortico Roses
Robson Road, RR 1
Waterdown, Ontario
L0R 2H1 Canada
416 689-6984
catalog $2.00
Inter-State Nurseries
P.O. Box 10
Louisiana, MI 63353
314 754-4525
800 325-4180
Kimbrew-Walter Roses
Route 2, Box 172
Grand Saline, TX 75140
214 829-2968
Krider Nurseries
P.O. Box 29
Middlebury, IN 46540
219 825-5714
Lowe's Own Root Roses
6 Sheffield Road
Nashua, NH 03062
603 888-2214
catalog $2.00
Morden Nurseries
P.O. Box 1270
Morden, Manitoba
R0G 1J0 Canada
204 822-3311
Pickering Nurseries
670 Kingston Road Hwy 2
Pickering, Ontario
L1V 1A6 Canada
416 839-2111
catalog $2.00 (free price list)
Rose Acres
6641 Crystal Blvd.
Diamond Springs, CA 95619
916 626-1722
Roses of Yesterday & Today
802 Brown's Valley Road
Watsonville, CA 95076
408 724-3537
catalog $3.00
Smith & Hawken (seems to be expanding into the old rose market)
25 Corte Madera
Mill Valley, CA 94941
catalog info 415 383-2000
Yesterday's Rose
572 Las Colindas Road
San Rafael, CA 94903
Bev Dobson's Combined Rose List
215 Harriman Road
Irvington, NY 10533
(to locate source of any commercially propagated rose)
Re: Roses List
Species Roses
Rosa Foetida single petals yellow
Rosa foetida Persiana double flowers yellow
Rose foetida bicolor single orange
Mrs. Colville single red
Rosa pimpinellifolia "double white double flowers white
Rosa canina single pink
Kiftsgate single, rambler white
Alba Roses
Great Maiden's Blush fully double blush pink
Jeanne d'Arc fully double white
Rosa alba 'semiplena' semi-double white
Felicite Parmentier double pale pink
Gallica Roses
Rosa gallica semi-double rose madder
Rosa gallica versicolor double rose/white striped
Charles de Mills full double deep pink
Tuscany Superb full double fuchsia
Georges Vibert full double striped
Damask Roses
Rose de Rescht full double rose madder
Celsiana double pale pink
Madamme Hardy double white
Pink Leda double medium pink
Duchess de Montebello double palest pink
Leda double white/pink edges
Many of these roses are available from Wayside Gardens. I had ordered four
roses from them, and three are doing wonderfully. The fourth died, and I
called them today. They will send me a replacement this week, no charge. I
like this company!
Re: Old Roses (from Usenet, rec.gardens, Bob Batson, Susan Ford)
Date: 30 Mar 92 16:57:07 GMT
Here is a list of some of the main old rose varieties. I will follow it
up with a selection of roses from each group.
Species Roses
These plants are the ancestors of all of the roses. Species refers
to the plants as they have been found in the wild, un-changed and
un-hybridized. For the most part, species roses are single
petalled, and some are semi-double. The different varieties come
in yellow, pink, rose madder red, and white. They are also very
LARGE bushes, growing up to 50 feet or more. The Lady Banks rose
is an example of a species rose. Most of them only bloom once a
year.
Gallicas
The flowers of the gallicas are usually flat and fully double, the
bushes have few thorns, and they are easy to raise from seed. The
town of Provins, France, was for 600 years the center of a great
rose industry based on _R. gallica officinalis_ (Red Rose of
Lancaster) and some of its forms. This rose was believed to have
medicinal properties. The Empress Josephine collected gallica
roses for her garden in Malmaisson. Some of the roses in this
family date back to the 12th and 13th centurys. Most of them are
shades of rose madder and pink, and bloom only once in a season.
Damasks
This is the first old rose family to have ever-blooming flowers.
It is possible that this rose was brought to Europe by the Greek
traders in the main ports of the Mediterrainian between 800 and 600
B.C. The flowers are usually fully double, flowering in summer,
and then again in fall. They are said to be repeat bloomers,
instead of ever blooming. Their parentage is unknown, but it is
believed that they come from a cross of Rosa gallica and an
everblooming Asian species. An example of this rose family is
Autumn Damask, or "Quatre Saisons". The petals of this rose were
scattered under the feet of the Roman Emperors as they walked along
in public.
Centifolias
Centifolia means 'hundred petals', and these roses are the most
fully double of them all. The roses are very full, and the petals
divide into quarters within the flower. This rose dates back to
bout 410 B.C. These roses make good climbers. Most of the
centifolias bloom only once in spring.
Mosses
This large family of roses are called mosses because their stems
have thousands of tiny thorns on them, and even the flower bracts
are 'mossy' with thorns. The flowers are usually double, and bloom
in the spring. We had a moss rose, and the flowers were the most
intense pink/purple I have ever seen on any rose. It was beautful.
Portland
Developed in the middle of the 19th century, this rose family has
mostly ever-blooming or perpetual blooming roses. The first family
was produced in England at about 1800. The rose was named Duchess
of Portland, hence the name Portland roses. A good Portland rose
is Comte de Chambourd.
Bourbons
These roses came from a natural cross of a China rose and a damask
rose. The bushes are compact and the roses are fewer, but much
better flowers in the fall than the other rose families. This is
personally my favorite group of old roses. The flowers are very
double and globular shaped. They have a beautiful bloom in the
fall, and won't quit blooming until the frost kills them. Some
examples are Honorine de Brabant, La Reine Victoria, Madamme Isaac
Periere, and Souvenir de la Malmaison.
China Roses
It was with the introduction of the China roses to Europe that true
ever-blooming roses were developed. Portlands, Bourbons, and
perhaps even Damasks were produced by crossing them with China
roses. Although not very popular in the garden, these roses are
very important to the history of rose culture.
Some Available Old Roses
Species Roses
^
Rosa Foetida single petals yellow
Rosa foetida Persiana double flowers yellow
Rose foetida bicolor single orange
Mrs. Colville single red
Rosa pimpinellifolia "double white double flowers white
Rosa canina single pink
Kiftsgate single, rambler white
Alba Roses
Great Maiden's Blush fully double blush pink
Jeanne d'Arc fully double white
Rosa alba 'semiplena' semi-double white
Felicite Parmentier double pale pink
Gallica Roses
^
Rosa gallica semi-double rose madder
Rosa gallica versicolor double rose/white striped
Charles de Mills full double deep pink
Tuscany Superb full double fuchsia
Georges Vibert full double striped
Damask Roses
Rose de Rescht full double rose madder
Celsiana double pale pink
Madamme Hardy double white
Pink Leda double medium pink
Duchess de Montebello double palest pink
Leda double white/pink edges
Comte de Chambord double pink/lilac
Bourbon Roses
^
Honorine de Brabant double striped/lilac/white
Madame Isaac Pereire fully double rose madder
La Reine Victoria double, cupped med. pink
Boule de Neige double white
Madame Pierre Oger double pale pink
Souvenir de al Malmaison double/flat flesh pink
Ferdinand Pichard double red/white striped
Reine des Violettes double purple
Moss Roses
General Kleber double palest pink
Shailer's White Moss double white
William Lobb double lilac
Centifolia Roses
Tour de Malkoff double deep fushcia
Chapeau de Napoleon double pink
De Meaux double pale pink
Hybrid Musk Roses
^
Cornelia semi double pink
Ballerina single whtie & pink
Penelope semi double pale yellow
Nymphenburg semi double apricot pink
Rugosa Roses
Blanc Double de Coubert double white
Topaz Jewel double yellow
Reseraie de l'Hay doulbe med. pink
Linda Campbell double red
Alba single white
Fru Dagmar Hastrup single pink
Hansa double deep deep pink
Many of these may be found in Wayside Rose Catalog. Also, check your better
nurseries. Old roses are beginning to show up. I just found a good
speciman of "Souvenir de la Malmaison" for $7!!!!! What a find!
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