Area : CHANNELS
Date : Nov 09 '95, 10:14
From : Ian Wilson, 1:353/115
To   : David Bump
Subj : channelled thought


 -=> Quoting David Bump to Ian Wilson <=-


 DB> Ah, this looks pretty solid.  But, is it possible you had a
 DB> discussion with him before about lucid dreaming and mentioned
 DB> your focus technique?

Nope, it was completely unseen and just happened.  Turned over a good
stone I guess :)

 DB> Oh, so this has been a repeatable experience.  How certain can
 DB> you be of attaining it?  If you can reproduce it at will, with
 DB> certain precautions, this would be a good example of a verifiable
 DB> psychic phenomenon!

It has happened over the course of 7 years with a lot of people that I
have shared dreams with and in that time I have met a small number who
have shared dreams with other people as well.    As for producing it
at will, there are a lot of factors that are involved that can prevent
it and I'll get into that in a bit.

As for Verifiable Psychic phenomena...this is nothing new, only
somehting that is ignored and refused to be publicly accepted, maybe
because of religion?  Political agenda's?  Maybe we are thought to be
held in ignorance...I have read very good strong cases for psychic
phenomena but no matter how valid or 100% absolute it's burried and
covered up or twisted into a hoax by a debunker.

Just think about this...Precognition...dreams that come true.  A
person dreams an even in their life in clear detail.

eg.

Your dreaming that your at school.  A girl named Mary passes you in
the hall and tell's you that forgot your science book at class.  She's
wearing very casual clothes that day and you think to yourself that's
strange she usually gets really dressed up for school.  As you go to
your class to pick up your book, you see a goat walking in the hallway
with a grad number painted on it.  You think it's funny and start to
laugh.

That exact event happens 3 months later in waking physical reality and
all you have is a strong memeory of the dream.  THIS is very common.
EXTREEMLY common, just ask around especially with people ages 10 - 30
and you'll find a large number who will have had this experience and a
moderate number who have it very intensely!  Something else I have
experience in and have done my own foot work on.

 DB> Apparently, I am still interested!

Then let me continue :)

When we dream, I have noticed that there are spheres or bubbles so to
speak where certain emotions, fears, desires and arrays of human
experience and fantasy are being expressed.  Sometimes, certain
spheres unite so that a group may work on group related issues or one-
on-one issues in the dream state.   Dreams I believe are possibley
electromagnetic in energy or some type of thought energy left unlabled
but have a reality all their own.

When two or more people are in one of those dream constructs, the
chance arrises that they may apon waking recall the dream into their
waking consciousness.  Now whether they remeber it or not, depends on
their ability to retain dreaming information.  And if they comment it
to a person they recognised in the dream and the person turns around
and claims to have had the same dream...at that stage, they both now
must entrust that information as being true ie.  Maybe one person
describes a portion of the dream, the other discribes another portion.
That seems to work okay, It would be obviously better to have written
proof but if you dreamt like me in a night, writting a book a day
would be time consuming so I leave it at just memory recall.

If I mentally seek out a person in the dreamstate via a Lucid Dream.
Sure, I have had a few successes where the other person has remebered.
Usually thought it's just chance, I become lucid, realise that I am
dreaming and if I see someone I can identify with in my daily life, I
usually approach them to try and share a dream...which doesn't always
work.

In the dream with Todd since you are now familliar with it.  This is
something else that occured.  When Todd was faced with an issue that
triggered an emotional response...the event being, I held the hand of
the man who was wearing robes to help me focus and balance my
consciousness in the dreamstate.  As I walked up to Todd, at his
dreaming perspective he saw me and the man but interpretted the
holding of hands as being homosexual.  And he thought we were comming
on to him so at that stage, he had a totally different dream where he
beat us up.

Well, at my perspective, Todd's head and eyes were sort of rolling as
if he was drunk or stoned and he just sort of stood there in a daze. A
state we both called Sleeper's Grogg.  A person in Sleeper's grogg
seems to be dealing with strong emotional issues and tends to be
really out of it and it's unlikely that a person in sleeper's grogg
will even remeber the objective dreamstate since they have projected a
personal enviroment to deal with what ever subject matter over the
sphere that you both share.

When I meet people in sleeper's grogg, they tend to be sluggish,
catatonic and act in strange behavior patterns.  A simple test for it
was to ask them a question, any question where both hemispheres of the
brain would be required to figure it out.  Where are you?  that is a
good one... or Do you know where you are?  These two questions really
spark strange results suchs as loud emotional responses...laughing,
screamming in terror, violence...ect.  To me, I think that's because
the people are really deep in human emotional issues and the
dreamstate has been effective in dealing with some of them.  That's
just my opinion though.

In cases with Todd where we are both Lucid, well then hey, were at the
same level and dream information is perfectly shared with little
distortion or personalisation.  But one does not always need to be
conscious that they are dreaming either to have clear recollection.
Propbably because there is no real strong emotion causing strong
personal thought to distort the dreaming enviroment.

I only recommend to people that I don't know too well to just mention
a dream that involved someone you know to them.  Mention that you had
a dream with them and then just give them a portion of the dream, like
a strong detail or event that you recall, but neglect to mention some
other strong details or events that you recall.  If they respond
positively such as hey, I had a dream like that, but there was this
over here and that over there.  And you recall those items, then at
least you stand on more solid ground to validate a shared experience
than if you just tell them the whole dream and then they say they did.

That covers briefly some of the area's of shared dreams.  I know
myself that it occures with no chance to think otherwise due to the
repitition of success that I have expeirenced.  But I prefere it when
people experience it themselves because then they can relate with
expeirence and not belief making them more stronger in knowledge and
less weak in wishful thinking.

If it's phychic phenomena you seek, you're your best teacher and
validator.  We all have these inheritances.  All of us, just there is
something that for generations has suppressed this stuff and if you do
have a strong string of experiences, just try to get it publicly
accepted by the strong sientific communities.  I think it's changing
now since these occurances are more frequent and more common with the
changes in consciousness occuring on the planet as a whole.

Being a bit of a conspiratist, I don't trust the Goverments, churches
and scientific communities with as much blind faith as they would like
from us.  I like to be free, think free and make my own choices in
life.  Since truth is absolute, then I don't need these agencies
telling me otherwise ;)

                        Until we chat again,
                                           Ian




... Truth can't hide forever when the whole planet is looking for it!
--- FMailX 1.02
 * Origin: Corpus Collosum, Penticton  BC Canada 1-(604)-493-9281 (1:353/115)