Don DeGracia's OBE CO #7 - IN THE OBE REALM
6/21/94 9:55 PM Forum CO
R 12 : *SYSTEM* | Switching to Dreams/Mind/ESP
Denis | Hi Don!
Don DeGracia | Hi Denis
Denis | I was wondering when you'd show up
Don DeGracia | Aqui!
| Well, looks like we got a giant turnout
| tonight!
Pat | hi denis!
Denis | Yep... :(
Pat | early yet
Denis | I was briefly lucid last night
Don DeGracia | So, Pat, if you would be so kind...
| as to put a . every about 5 lines....
Pat | ok
Don DeGracia | we'll see if we can keep from locking up!
| Cool! Should we start?
Denis | Sure, I guess...
Pat | sure
Don DeGracia | Ok, well usual format...
| got short intro stuff...
| then we'll gab...
Don DeGracia | so...
| Tonight we are going to discuss the OBE realm
| itself...
| Places you can go and beings you can meet..
| 1. Places you go when out-of-body: the OBE
| realms...
| In simple terms, the OBE realm can be thought
| of as...
| a series of layers, and these are the
| subplanes....
| The subplanes have an order to them. The
| order of...
| the planes corresponds to the range of
| human...
| emotions. At the "low" end you have "bad"
| emotions...
| like fear and dread. At the "high" end of
| the..
| subplanes, you have "good" emotions such as...
Don DeGracia | truth and spiritual insight. This is how the
| OBE regions...
| are organized..
| In between each subplane is an empty space
| called...
| the void. If the subplanes are like radio
| stations...
| the voids are like the static nothingness
| between....
| the radio stations. When you are in the
| void, ...
| everything is dark and quiet...
| In my OBE class notes, I described 4
| different types...
| of subplanes: lower, middle, higher and
| surreal...
| The lower regions are dark and scary and it
| is hard...
| to move on them. The middle regions look
| very much...
| like this physical world. The higher regions
| are full...
| of sparkling colors and make you feel very
| good when
| you....
| are on them. The surreal regions are very
| abstract...
| spaces of moving color patterns and may be
| very...
| beautiful....
| You could potentially end up in any of these
| the OBE realms....
Don DeGracia | There are two types of beings you can
| encounter...
| during your OBEs: nonhuman beings and human
| beings...
| The nonhuman beings could be anything:
| talking...
| animals, spirits, ghosts, zombies, fairy
| folk. All of...
| these types of creatures exist in the OBE
| realm...
| They may be friendly or they may be hostile
| or they...
| may be totally indifferent to you. The same
| is true...
| when you meet humans in the OBE realms....
| I have found that most of the humans I meet
| in my...
| OBEs are not very lucid. A lot of them act
| like...
| dreamers and do not seem to be aware that
| they...
| are on the planes. THey often act very much
| as people
| act here in the physical world..
Don DeGracia | When you meet beings in your OBEs you should
| talk...
| to them. Ask them questions. Ask if they
| know...
| where they are at. Ask them what their names
| are...
| Ask them what year it is. By the answers
| they give to...
| these questions, you can see if they are
| lucid or not...
| Finally, the last thing I want to say about
| the OBE...
| realm is that you do not have to fear
| anything you meet...
| out there. Nothing in the OBE worlds can
| harm you...
| If worse comes to worse, just wake yourself
| up from...
| the OBE....
Don DeGracia | So, that's a brief overview of the OBE realm
| itself...
| You can get more information by reading my
| class...
| notes or reading other books about astral...
| projection or the planes...
| So, that's it for my spew tonight...
| Lets open the floor up to questions and
| discussion...
Denis | !
Don DeGracia | Any one want to say anything?
| Denis> Question? Comment?
Denis | I had a dream last week that seems relevent
| to the subplanes...
MIKE G. VON HALLE | So Don, your talking about the subplanes in
| the astral world/plane, correct?
Anthony R. | hi
Don DeGracia | Denis first, Mike second
Denis | In a nutshell, I visited 3 planes...
Don DeGracia | hi Anthony...this is a formal CO.
MIKE G. VON HALLE | Sorry, I butt in, I'm new at this.
Anthony R. | What's that mean?
Don DeGracia | Mike> no problem!
Denis | It started in a dark and gloomy place...
| Night, with red volcanoes in the background...
| People running scared all around me...
| I moved "forward" and ended up in a foggy
| place...
| people around me were wandering aimlessly...
| I was walking ahead in a tunnel...
| noticing as I walked branch leading away from
| the main corridor...
| I reached the end of the tunnel and had to
| dig "up"...
| I emerged from a white cliff (snow?)...
| facing a gold wall...
| I climbed over it and on the other side was
| this old egyptian city with people in it...
| I woke up at that point, just before entering
| the city... :(
| GA
Don DeGracia | Denis> Thanks for sharing that....
| Mike> quick answer, yes, I am talking of the
| subplanes of
| the astral...
| though I use the term "subplane pretty
| loosely...
| after we discuss Denis' dream..
Denis | Sorry, forgot to mentionned that I had that
| dream after "intending" to visit planes
Don DeGracia | we can come back to this if you want...
| Denis>...
| It does sound like you roamed through a few
| different...
| regions...
| In the misty place whre people were
| wandering...
| aimlessly, what did the people look like? GA,
| Denis
Denis | They look like pale zombies... GA
Don DeGracia | I've been to a place where it was all dark
| and misty...
| and people were wandering aimlessly...
| but the people looked like shadows or
| silloutttes to me.
| Ok, Mike, GA
| GA = go ahead
| Mike, did you want to follow up on your
| question?
MIKE G. VON HALLE | I have a backgound in TM and have been trying
| to tie this meditation in to other occult
| activities
Don DeGracia | You can use your meditation practice as a
| means...
| to achieve the OBE state.
| GA, Mike.
MIKE G. VON HALLE | I read The projection of the Astral Body by
| Muldoon and Carrington and that started me
| looking in this forum
Don DeGracia | There are a lot of people in the forum that
| can astral...
| project and Muldoon is a favorite of some of
| them.
MIKE G. VON HALLE | Your course has been excellent for me in an
| effort I've been pursuing for some time to
| tie the various aspects together
Don DeGracia | Glad to hear it.
MIKE G. VON HALLE | GA
Sheila | !
Don DeGracia | Sheila,> Comment?
Sheila | Yes,
Don DeGracia | GA, Sheila
Sheila | I've not had ...
| much happen this week ...
Don DeGracia | :(
Sheila | but I was reading...
| your book and I was...
| struck by what you said about...
| people being dazed when you meet...
| them in the planes because...
| I did have a similar experience during...
| journeying...It was the only time...
| I met someone and he was just...
| as you described people you met. GA
Don DeGracia | Yes, Sheila, it really suprised me as time
| and time...
| again during my OBEs, I'd talk to people...
| and they wouldn't respond to me with any ...
| intelligence at all....
| Its one of the reasons I accept the occult
| viewpoints
| now...
| Because occultists say that people are like
| this on the...
| planes. GA
MIKE G. VON HALLE | Are they dazed because they are not lucid
| dreamers? GA
Sheila | I was wondering...
| if the planes you describe...
| are the same as where I go when I journey??
| GA
Don DeGracia | Sheila> I don't know for sure...
| but it sounds like it might be...
| I'd need to know more about the contents of
| your...
| journeys to be more certain.
| GA
Sheila | Well, the main difference...
| as far as I can tell is..
| that when I journey I am only in a light
| trance...
| and am (usually) aware of where...
| I am physically as well as where I am...
| in whichever world I journey to.
| That made me thing...
| it was different, but...
| this meeting of the guy was so similar to...
| your experiences...I don't know...
| My experiences...
| during a journey do involve other beings...
| and they are very aware...
| as am I of them and we interact...
| in very specific ways...
| Usually they set up some kind of concrete...
| experience for me to undergo...
| and it makes sense, though...
| I can also do things like fly and things
| BA
| GA
Don DeGracia | Sheila, you and I have discussed this about...
| how you seem to be in both places at once....
| which is kind of the borderland where it's
| part...
| astral projection, but part clairvoaynce...
Sheila | No this is different...
Don DeGracia | but still, I suspect that what you are
| percieving in this
| state....
| is the same thing I percieve when out-of-body.
| ga
Sheila | It is not like a dread...
| I mean dream...
| I am much more conscious of everything...
| I don't have the words to explain the
| difference
| (frustrated)...
| but it is not...
| like that other experience I described to
| you. GA
Don DeGracia | If you want Sheila, we can explore this more
| in the msg
| board...
Sheila | OK
Don DeGracia | becasue I'd like to understand better what
| you are trying
| to describe...
| right now, i want to move on to Mike's
| question..
| Mike...
| you asked...
| Are they dazed because they are not lucid
| dreamers?
| Basically, the answer to that is yes, because
| by
| definition...
| a lucid dreamer is lucid!...
| I can't say with any certainty about this...
| and all I can go by is what people with much
| more...
| advanced psychic skills than I have have to
| say...
| but according to highly skilled psychics....
| these people are most likely deceased people..
| who no longer have a physical body...
| And, again, according to occult ideas....
| after we die, our personality slowly fades
| away...
Don DeGracia | and our spirit returns to the greater essence
| of which it
| is...
| a part....
| so, it is likely that a lot of these "dumb"
| people I meet...
| during my OBEs are actually people's
| personalities...
| in various states of, for lack of a better
| word, decay.
| Mike>GA
MIKE G. VON HALLE | This is fascinating
| How do you perceive a person on the astral
| plane in a non-lucid dream state?
| GA
Don DeGracia | Well, this gets a bit more complicated....
| but my theory is that....
| living people who dream go to different
| regions...
| of the subplanes than people who no longer
| have a
| body...
| In other words, there are dreamer regions and
| regions...
| for the discarnate. and these regions are
| pretty much...
| seperate. So, when you are dreaming, you are
| actually
| interacting...
| with other dreamers...
Sheila | ?
Don DeGracia | Now, for some reason, going OBE allows one
| to...
| access the regions where discarnate humans
| are at.
| Mike> Follow up, then we'll take Sheila's
| question.
MIKE G. VON HALLE | OK, are there discarnates on all the subplane
| you visit?
Sheila | Last summer I had a (non-Lucid) dream in
| which my
| father...
| sorry
Don DeGracia | Mike, its really hard to answer that....
| Its important to stress that this is just an
| idea...
| I have no way to prove that these are dead
| people...
| Its a nice theory, but there are other ideas
| too.
| So, lets take Sheila's question, then Pat's
| comment.
| Sheila>GA
Sheila | About my father...
| he's been dead for 14 years...
| In this incredible dream...
| which was so vivid...
| he came to me while I was talking...
| to Helen...I ran from him but he caught up...
| and when I turned around I saw him as the
| most alive...
| most vital person...
Sheila | more than he was in the last many years of
| his life...
| and he said to me "I love you more than
| anything...
| in the world"...I was so overwhelmed that...
| I woke up...Helen said she thought it
| really...
| was my father...Yet I was not projecting..
| GA
Don DeGracia | Sheila...
| Even tho I posit this idea that dream regions
| are...
| seperate from the regions of the deceased...
| its well known that very strong emotional
| bonds...
| will attract people together on the planes....
| and it sounds to me that your Father came and
| visited you one night while you were
| dreaming...
| Yes, you were not projecting...
| but don't forget, the only real difference
| between
| dreams...
| and projections is the state of your mind,
| not where you
| are at. GA, follow up, Sheila?
Sheila | no, but thanks
| GA
Don DeGracia | Ok, Pat, you had a comment?
Pat | the people that i meet...
| in other worlds seem to be...
| living people...
| the lower realms
| seem to contain the dead
| which dissapate
| but i dont know to where GA
Don DeGracia | I think that there is some truth in looking
| at it that way,
| Pat...
Denis | !
Don DeGracia | Its a fine distinction between a living being
| and that...
| being's personality while here on the physical
| plane...
| but when you get to the nonphysical realms...
| the distinction becomes much more clear
| cut....
| and you realize that you are NOT your
| personality, ...
| but are the being who animates the elements
| that...
| make up the personality...
| It sounds to me, Pat, like these beings you
| meet who...
| are alive indeed are alive...
Don DeGracia | and that in the lower realms what is
| happening is the
| decay...
| of the physical personality....
| I'll bet any money that the beings you meet
| who...
| claim to be alive don't have a personality in
| the same
| way we do right now. GA, Pat.
Pat | so you dont feel that you take any part
| of...
| the personlaity when you die to the
| next...
| life?
| .
Don DeGracia | Well, you have to distinquish...
| between innate tendencies on one hand....
| and the way these tendencies manifest
| during...
| your incarnation on the other hand....
| So, for example, if a person had a tendency
| towards...
| over possesivness....
| in this life he may be a sucsessful
| buisnessman....
| but in another incarnation, the same
| tendency....
| may manifest as being a crook....
| or in another life he may be a politician and
| be both
| But do you see the idea I am getting at, Pat?
| GA
Pat | so the innate personality migrates?
Don DeGracia | I wouldn't call it a personality per say...
| its more like a grouping of tendencies or
| qualities...
| that could take on myriad of forms depending
| on...
| the circumstances...
Pat | the essence perhaps
Don DeGracia | Yes, that's a good way to think about it...
| but also keeping in mind that this essence
| itself...
| can change as it expereinces life in
| inumerable forms. GA
Pat | thanks ga
Don DeGracia | Ok, lets take Denis' comments, and then we'll
| call it a
| night.
| Denis> GA
Denis | I've read somewhere that dead personas
| "dissipate" when people reintegrate their
| higher selves,
| like a part merging with the whole...
| Just thought I'd add my two bits GA
Don DeGracia | That's eactly what we are talking about Denis!
| So, gang, i gues we'll go informal now....
Denis | (I know... I had the sentence typed ahead...
| )
Don DeGracia | thanks a lot everyone for showing up...
| and special thanks to Pat for keeping us from
| crashing!
|
|
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