Don DeGracia's OBE CO #6
Note to the reader: you will notice throughout the transcripts
that there is some one who is only sending a "." about every 5
lines. This is done to prevent the software from locking up
during a CO. Sorry if this creates any reading inconviniences.
Thanks - Don
********** 6/14/94 9:55 PM Forum CO
R 12 : *SYSTEM* | Switching to Dreams/Mind/ESP
Becky | Hi John. Are you here for the class?
Don DeGracia | Hi. Who's here?
john e. m. | hi -- yes
Becky | Hi Don.
Don DeGracia | Hi Becky.
john e. m. | ho becky and don!
Becky | Been waiting for ya
Don DeGracia | Ho John!
john e. m. | .
| i'll try to make the .'s more freq. this time!
Don DeGracia | Oh, heck John, you did great laast time.
john e. m. | .
| .
| .
Don DeGracia |
| Big turnout tonight!
john e. m. | hi greg!
Becky | I noticed
Pat | hi everybody!
Gregory A. Whelchel | Have you started yet?
Don DeGracia | Hi Pat!
Becky | Hello Pat
john e. m. | hi pat!
| brb -- gotta let the blue demons out of the
| cage (macaws!)
Don DeGracia | Greg> in a couple minutes we'll start.
Gregory A. Whelchel | ok
john e. m. | .
Pat | macaws--neat, my son thinks hes a
| macaw!!
Don DeGracia | Well, should we start?
Pat | ok
john e. m. | fine -- ga
Gregory A. Whelchel | sure!
Becky | Why not
Don DeGracia | Ok, lets get started...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | same old format, I'll say my intro stuff,
| then we'll...
| have an open floor. Remember to ? if you got
| a ....
| question. So, here we go...
| Tonight we begin our final topic: In the OBE
| realm..
| We will discuss what it is like in the OBE
| realm...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | for the final 3 classes. I'd like to discuss
| 3 topics
| tonight..
| 1. Problems with lucidity....
| Even though I said that the idea of
| projection is to...
| take your waking mind into the dream realm,
| what you...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | will find is that when you actually become
| lucid...
| "over there" that it is not so clear cut. In
| spite of the...
| fact that you are aware, you will find...
| yourself doing things, thinking things and
| feeling...
| things that you wouldn't do here in the
| physical world....
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | You will also find that your memory doesn't
| work as...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | good *for specific things* mainly the things
| you read or
| the...
| things that people say to you are hard to
| remember...
| I point this out so you can pay attention to
| these...
| factors. If you observe these differences
| make sure...
| you record them in your journal...
| 2. The OBE realm...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Being in the OBE realm is very much different
| than...
| being in this realm. Whatever the laws of
| nature...
| are in that realm, they are different than
| the laws of
| nature...
| here on the physical plane. Some
| highlights:...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | a. Your thoughts and emotions can take on
| life...
| outside of you during an OBE>...
| b. Places and events in the OBE realm can
| be...
| symbolic as much as they can be literal...
| That is,...
| the logic of dream interpretation plays a
| role during...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | OBEs....
| 3. Things you can do there that you can't do
| here..
| Old news:...
| a. flying...
| b. moving through walls...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | The only thing to say about these 2 abilities
| is that..
| they don't always work. You may try to fly
| or pass...
| through a wall and find that nothing
| happens....
| I do not know why this is....
| The exciting one:...
| c. Using psychic powers...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | You can literally use psychic powers during
| OBEs...
| You can read minds quite literally. you will
| "feel"...
| the thoughts of other beings in your mind and
| you will...
| "feel" other beings "feeling" your thoughts...
| Psychokinesis - you can move things simply
| by...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | thinking about them in the OBE realm. You
| can...
| also cause things in your imagination to form
| in...
| front of you...
| You may also get glimpses into your other
| lives:...
| past lives or even future lives...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | You will find yourself doing these things
| quite...
| automatically during projections. This is
| one...
| reason why your lucidity in the OBE realm
| is...
| *different* than it is here. Again, I point
| this...
| out beforehand so that you can recognize that
| these...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | things are happening to you when you are
| OBE...
| Also, and this is very important, you will
| find..
| yourself using psychic abilities in your
| dreams too...
| One of the reasons you want to try to
| remember your...
| dreams as best you can is so you can see
| yourself ...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | using these psychic abilities.
| So, that's it for tonight's spew. Let's open
| up the...
| floor for questions and comments.
| GA
Gregory A. Whelchel | ?
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Greg, GA
Gregory A. Whelchel | Don, have you ever run into beings that are
| what some people...
| consider higher extensions or aspects of
| yourself?
| go
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Greg, are you asking if I have ever met my
| higherself...
| during my OBEs? ga
Gregory A. Whelchel | yes ga
Don DeGracia | Well...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | The answer to this is "yes" and "no"...
| let me explain...
| The answer is "no" in the sense...
| that I have never directly encountered some
| efflugent..
| being who said, "Hi, Don, I am your
| higherself"...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | But, the answer is "yes" in the sense that...
| I have encountered symbolic circumstances...
| during my OBEs that were obviously my
| "higher self"...
| trying to communicate things to my, Don, the
| personality...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | So, I've not directly encountered anything,
| but I have...
| indirectly encountered transcendental stuff.
| Greg> Follow up? GA
Gregory A. Whelchel | good because lately I have encountered
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | beings that appear to be teachers
| some that even take the form of people I have
| studied with...
| here in the physical, that have been giving
| me insights...
| about cleaning up the emotional center, if
| you will...
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | so as to be able to remain focused while
| OBE....
| They seemed so eerily familiar to me
| however.... as if talking...
| to just another forgotten part of myself. GA
| Thanks.
Don DeGracia | Greg...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | what you are saying makes a lot of sense...
| Actually, this is something I should have put
| in the...
| class notes, the idea of meeting "teachers",
| during...
| OBEs....
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | My most interesting expereince ever in this
| regard...
| though was during a dream...
| Where some one I didn't know was teaching me
| how to...
| feel people's thoughts.
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | So, any more questions? Pat, would you like
| ...
| to comment about some of the beings you have
| met?
Mark Doblekar | ?
Hutch | ?
john e. m. | .
Pat | I often become the beings--- especially a
| bird being, feel part bird and person
Don DeGracia | Mark> GA
| sorry, PAt and Mark!
Mark Doblekar | Can two people try to meet in a OBE? Like a
| planed meeting?
| GA
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Mark, I'll get to your question, but let me
| discuss...
| Pats comment first, ok?
Mark Doblekar | OK
Don DeGracia | Pat, you actually become the being?
Pat | yes
john e. m. | .
Pat | I can then change my body to other beings
Don DeGracia | Does your self-identity change when this
| happnes?
Pat | yes, it changes but i can feel the pat-self
Don DeGracia | WHat changes in your awareness, Pat?
john e. m. | .
Pat | I can feel the "otherness" and look down
| and see the bird body, sometimeds i see a
| very strange body
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | "Feel the otherness": does this mean you
| feel...
| like you are two beings at once?
Pat | a merging of 2 beings
Don DeGracia | Do you get new insights when this happens?
Pat | oh, yes, and this is often when i see the
| non earth colors
| ga
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Pat, I'll stop now, but we can get back to
| this...
Pat | ok
Don DeGracia | later if others want to. Let me answers...
| Marks question now...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Mark>...Lots of authors of OBE report ...
| meeting other people and having both....
| people remember it. I myself, in spite of
| many...
| attempts have never been able to do this.
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Mark> Follow up? GA
john e. m. | .
Mark Doblekar | No, that pretty much answers what I wanted to
| know. Thanks.
Hutch | ?
Don DeGracia | Ok....
| Hutch was next. Hutch
Hutch | I've started reading Monroe's "Journeys" ...
john e. m. | .
Hutch | and he mentions a big, immovable "arch" in
| one of his ...
| "locales" as if it's something everyone can
| experience...
| Have you heard of others running into this ...
| and are there really consistencies in the
| astral planes ...
john e. m. | .
Hutch | that folks run into while OOB? GA
Don DeGracia | Hutch...
| First, about Monroe's arch...
| I think I remember him describing this...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | I have never seen anything like it, nor have
| I read...
| any other authors that describe this site...
| About your second question, regarding...
| consistencies in the astral plane...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | this gets back to what i say in the notes
| about...
| how our language isn't very adequate for
| capturing...
| dream and OBE realm expereince...
| But, the thing is...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | what IS consistent about these inner realms...
| is the fact that they seem to be organized...
| based on emotional and mental qualities...
| I honest to God do not know if the idea of...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | geography has any meaning at all in the
| context of...
| the obe and dream realms. It is possible
| that the ...
| "places" we "go" to in dreams and OBEs are ...
| totally self-created...
john e. m. | .
Pat | !
Don DeGracia | But every person that has ever projected
| enough...
| to get a sense of how it is organized...
| all agree that the dream and obe realms are...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | layered, or form strata of different levels
| of...
| emotion or insight.
| Hutch> Follow up? GA
Hutch | One ...
| Do you find a difference in the places you go
| ...
| depending on whether you go in from a dream
| ...
john e. m. | are we still formal ??
Hutch | or from a trance? GA
Don DeGracia | John> Yes.
| Hutch> I've found no obvious difference...
| between where I go when I dream or when i am
| OBE...
| with one major exception...
| I seem to be able to experience a much
| broader...
| range of "places" when I am OBE. GA
Hutch | Thanks! GA
Gregory A. Whelchel | ?
Don DeGracia | Hutch> sure!
| Pat> Did you have a comment?
john e. m. | .
Pat | I cant see any of hutchs sendings, but
| wnted to say...
| that there seems to be a consistency in not
| only selvels but content of dream words
| ga
john e. m. | .
Pat | worlds
Don DeGracia | Pat, from what you have told me of your
| expereinces...
| you seem to expereince an amazing
| consistency...
| to the "places" you go when OBE compared to...
| my expereinces...
Pat | yes, don,l but other people have seen the
| same worlds
Don DeGracia | The "locations" i "go to" seem very random.
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | That too is really intresting...
Pat | ga
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Frankly, i do believe there are "places"...
| out there that we could all go to...
| as long as we were all "tuned into" the
| same...
| emotional and mental frequencies.
| Pat> Thanks for sharing that!
john e. m. | .
Bruce & Lauree M. | Have you ever traveled to The Temple?
Don DeGracia | Gregory is next. Gregory> GA.
Gregory A. Whelchel | thanks...
Don DeGracia | Bruce etc, we are still formal till 11 PM
Gregory A. Whelchel | I wanted to say first that I have taken
| repeat visits to...
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | particular places that I found really
| pleasant...
| but I have yet to be able to do this at
| will...
| I usually intend to come back and then I do
| .... sooner or later.
| ...
| I had a q re Monroe...
| In "Far Journeys" he said he was able to
| "park" his Astral bod..
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | and then move out into "total freedom" as he
| called it...
| What in the world was he talking about here?
| Is he entering and.
| using what could be termed the Causal body?
| I noticed he was...
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | then able to experience a MUCH wider range of
| levels than...
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | previously, from his Astral only. Comments?
| GA
Don DeGracia | Greg, I think that is a reasonable way to
| think....
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | about what Monroe describes...
| I do not really know though what he is
| talking about...
| with this idea of "total freedom"....
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | but, according to traditional occult
| teachings...
| when you assume one of the deeper bodies
| (or...
| "higher" , if you will)...
| you can still access the lower bodies and
| expereince...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | through them, but you now have a broader
| range of...
| expereicne at your access.
| Greg> Follow up? GA
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | No that's great. Thanks! GA
Don DeGracia | Sure!
| Anything else?
| Anybody?
Pat | ?
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Pat GA
Pat | This "total fereedom"...
| do you still have the sensation of a body?
Gregory A. Whelchel | Monroe indicated that he did not have the
| sensation of a body...
Don DeGracia | Well, the times I've expereinced "total
| freedom"...
| sorry!
Gregory A. Whelchel | He was more like light. That's ok.
| ga
john e. m. | .
Pat | ahhh-sounds like what i call dispersal--fo
| ahiead
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | I was gonna say that when I've expereicned...
Pat | ga
Don DeGracia | "total freedom"....
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | that the whole idea of form of any type
| seems...
| irrelevant. Even time and space no longer
| apply...
| From what i have felt, all I know for sure is
| that...
| these feelings and insights completely
| dwarf...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | this little creature who is typing these
| words. GA
| Next?
Gregory A. Whelchel | ?
Don DeGracia | Greg> ga
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | Hate to keep hogging the floor, but since no
| one is asking...
Don DeGracia | go for it!
Gregory A. Whelchel | Can we back up just a little and cover odd..
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | sensations experienced when getting out? ga
Don DeGracia | Sure, what do you have in mind? ga
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | Well, I sent you a little e-mail filling
| you in on the ...
| details, but since we're here now...
| lately I have been getting into an incredibly
| intense...
| vibration just when my body goes
| paraleptic....
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | that is accompanyed by a very loud
| (non-physical) buzzing...
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | sound much like ten-thousand bees buzzing
| around my head...
| Sometimes it causes extreme headaches and
| pressures on the...
| chakras... What do you make of this? GA
Don DeGracia | First, Pat, Denis, and you Greg, I've been ...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | busy and haven't gotten to mail yet! :(
| So, I'll be answering asap...
| Greg, these thing syou describe are
| relatively...
| common...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | These sensations relate to kundalini flaring
| up...
| the most important thing is to not push it...
| if you start feeling pain....
| Otherwise, if its not bad then just go with
| it...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | because these sensations are preliminary to...
| the various altered states. GA
Gregory A. Whelchel | ok...
| It's a little scary at times...
| because it's so intense...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | We'll let Greg finnish then go informal.
Gregory A. Whelchel | Other times it actually seems to straighten
| out my body in...
| some way that is so beautiful and
| fulfilling....
| I can't really describe it. But, I've
| noticed it has to do...
| with controlling the Heart chakra and not
| letting that tighten..
| up with fear... Does that make any sense? GA
Don DeGracia | Greg, it makes tons of sense to me...
| I know that tightening feeling at the chest
| really well...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | A big part of what you are describing is
| simply...
| becoming familiar with it. As you become
| accoustomed...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | to these sensations, they don't affect you as
| much...
| And the other part of the equation, as I say
| in the class...
| notes, is to have some way to understand what
| is ...
| happneing to you. In your case, Greg, you
| need to...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | be up on ideas about kundalini and the
| chakras...
| read about other people's expereicnes and
| that kind of ...
| stuff. Again, as long as there is no bad
| pain...
| you should be ok. GA
john e. m. | .
Gregory A. Whelchel | Good, I was afraid I might be doing damage to
| myself. Thanks! GA
Pat | ?
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Sure
| Pat, GA
Pat | you said that u want to see yourself using
| psychic aboilities when oob, why?
Don DeGracia | Why does one want to see themselves using ...
| psychic abilities during an OBE or dream?
Pat | yup
Don DeGracia | Well, for one, to just know what it feels
| like...
Ollamh Dearg | ?
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Also, I think that these are much cleaner
| during a...
| dream or OBE. That is, you get a much
| clearer ...
| sense of what they are and how they work and
| feel...
| And then, what happens, is that once you
| *learn*...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | these sensations from dreams or OBEs, the
| learning...
| carries over into your physical life and you
| start to ...
| recognize pychic events occuring there too.
| Does this make sense, PAt? ga
Pat | yes, but u feel that develping...
john e. m. | .
Pat | your psychic abilities in this world..
| is beneficial?
| g
| A
Don DeGracia | Is that a trick question!!
Pat | No
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Honestly, i think that developing psychic
| abilities...
| is good as long as its not too much too
| soon...
| A person could go nuts if they got too much
| too quick...
| but a little bit helps to make people more
| empathic...
| and if there is anything the world needs
| now...
| it is more empathy!
| Ollamh? Querstion? GA
Ollamh Dearg | Don, don't you find that your "will" is much
| more focused
| when OOBE and that you are able to think more
| clearly?
| Not to mention have a greatly expanded
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Ollamh, ...
| I do not find my will more focused when OBE
| compared...
| to when I am here in the physical, but it is
| much more...
| focused than when I simply dream...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | In terms of expanded consciosness during
| OBE...
| yes, to a certain extent, but I have to look
| for it...
| If, for example, i decide to look through
| my...
| memories when OBE, I find all kinds of
| memeories there..
| that i do not have when I am physical.
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Ollamh> GA
Ollamh Dearg | Thanks...
Don DeGracia | After Ollamh, we go informal!
Ollamh Dearg | I have been OOBE and I foind that we have no
| distractions from the socalled "solid
| state"...
john e. m. | .
Ollamh Dearg | reality that we are currently in....this
| means that we are
| actually...
| experiencing our own created reality as it
| intersects with...
| other entities that are also capable of
| creating a reality...
| I was just wondering if your experiences were
| similar.
john e. m. | .
Ollamh Dearg | ga
Don DeGracia | Yes, Ollamh, I think that is a nice
| characterization...
| of our expereince here in the physical plane.
| I think..
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | the creative aspect is much "cleaner" during
| dreams...
| and obes.
| Well gang,
| let's call it a night.
| We are formally informal as of now!
|
|
Disclaimer: The file contained in the
box above or displayed in a separate window from a link in the
box above is NOT owned nor implied to
be owned by BeYoND THe iLLuSioN. Most files at BeYoND THe
iLLuSioN are originally from public Bulletin Board Systems
(BBS) which were popular in the days before the Internet or
from gopher, web, and FTP sites from the early days of the
Internet which no longer exist today. Essentially, all files
were acquired from the public domain in one for or another.
However, there have been occasions when copyright protected
material has appeared on BeYoND THe iLLuSIoN without permission
of the copyright holder. In these instances, we have and will
continue to remove the copyright protected file as soon as it
is brought to our attention. This can now be done using our Report Copyright Material form. Fill
out the form, and the webmaster will be notified of the
situation.
There are also times when files found on BeYoND THe iLLuSioN
have a real home somewhere else on the Internet. In these
instances, we will gladly replace the file with a link to its
true home whenever it is brought to our attention. If you know
of the true home of any of these files, you can use our Report Original URL form to bring it yo our
attention.
|
