********** 6/7/94 9:54 PM Forum CO
Don DeGracia's OBE CO #5
Note to the reader: you will notice throughout the transcripts
that there is some one who is only sending a "." about every 5
lines. This is done to prevent the software from locking up
during a CO. Sorry if this creates any reading inconviniences.
Thanks - Don
R 12 : *SYSTEM* | Switching to Dreams/Mind/ESP
Richard Atkins | HOWDY
Don DeGracia | Hi!
Pat | hi don!
Pamela J. Coupe | Hi Don! I downloaded that manual of yours -
| so far, its great!!!!!
Don DeGracia | Hi Pat!
| Thanks Pamela!
Pamela J. Coupe | Can someone have a OBE if they are on
| prescription drugs such as
Don DeGracia | So, how is everybody tonight?
Pamela J. Coupe | sleeping pills
Richard Atkins | GOOD
Pamela J. Coupe | Great!
Pat | okey dokey
Richard Atkins | Don, I am new to this but would like to get
| some
| information on biofeed back can you help?
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Richard, I don't know much about
| biofeedback...
Richard Atkins | What is the easiest way to have an OOB
Don DeGracia | but, when we get around to the question and
| answer
| session in a bit, you can ask. Sound ok?
Richard Atkins | ok
Don DeGracia | Pamela, i'll try to handle your question
| later in the CO...
| is that ok?
| Matter of fact, after my "intro remarks",
| Pamela..
| can have the first question, then Richard...
| Sound cool?
Richard Atkins | ok
Pat | theres no pamela on my
| roster
Don DeGracia | Apparentlyt she left!
| Well, let me see if my assistant is ready,
| then we can
| start.
Richard Atkins | Beyond
Pat | .
Richard Atkins | Who is here?
TADPOLE | I'm here.
Don DeGracia | Ok, every one, lets get started for tonight...
Richard Atkins | Hello Pat
Don DeGracia | Welcome everybody...
Denis | Yippee!
Pat | .
Richard Atkins | Wahooeee
Don DeGracia | this is the 5th in a series of 8 COs...
| about how to OBE....
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | As usual, I will open with about 10-15 minutes
| worth...
| of preliminary remarks and then we will open
| the...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | floor for questions and answers. Please
| remember...
| this is a formal CO....
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | If you have a question, please put a "?"
| thanks...
| Instead of sticking to the schedule I posted
| for ...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | tonight, I have decided that it would be
| better...
| to give kind of a progress report to you, and
| to...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | spend one more CO discussing the methods
| for...
| achieving OBEs....
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | First, I want to say I am really pleased with
| how...
| the class is going. People are doing really
| well...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | on all fronts: you guys are learning how to
| get...
| control of the elements that will let you
| projet, you...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | are all asking extremely intelligent
| questions...
| (quite a few of which I have no answers for),
| the ...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | messages being posted are really good, and
| you are all...
| doing a great job comunicating amongst each
| other...
Pat | .
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | and sharing your experiences...
| GOOD JOB EVERYBODY!!!
| Now, let us discuss methods some more...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Instead of discussing what is in the notes, I
| want...
| to spend tonight clarifying some of the ideas
| in the
| notes..
| and addressing some of the more commmon
| questions...
| I have been getting. There are 4
| topics/questions...
| that need clarifying and these are:
| 1. Distractions to going into trance:
| physiological...
| and psychological....
| A number of you, as you have begun to
| practice...
| the trance method, have come to realize that
| any number
| of...
| distractions are possible. I ahve gotten
| reports of...
| itching, fidgeting, changes in body
| temperature,...
| and other minor distractions. These happen
| because...
| and other minor distractions. Thest happen...
john e. m. | .
| .
Don DeGracia | because your body is not used to relaxing....
| You simply have to overcome these with will
| power....
| And likewise when you concentrate. As I
| said,...
| your mind will wander all over the place if
| youlet it...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | The only way to overcome this is by will
| power...
| The best thing to do, and the easiest is what
| I...
| said in the notes: try to stay focused on the
| fact...
| that you are aware of yourself...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Some of you have reported more serious kinds
| of...
| distractions such as strange feelings in your
| face,...
| neck, or eyes, strong vibrations coursing
| through...
| your body that are so strong they break your
| trance...
| Also, some of you are reporting things like...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | seeing blinding flashes of white light, or
| getting...
| strong "rushing sensations". To address
| these,...
| let's move on to the next topic:...
| 2. What is kundalini?...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | One of the problems with the notes I wrote is
| that I...
| do not go into enough detail about what...
| kundalini is and how kundalini relates...
| to the OBE. And even right now I cannot say
| too much..
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | There is a rich literature available
| explaining...
Richard Atkins | .
Don DeGracia | what kundalini is, so if any of you want more
| info,...
| just write and I'll send you references...
| For our purposes here, I will define
| kundalini as an....
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | energy that is DORMANT in you normally, but
| that...
| gets triggered off to some extent when you
| try to...
| project. It is because of the increase in
| kundalini...
| that many of you are experiencing the kind
| of strange
| sensations you...
| are describing...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Tha main thing about these sensations is
| this:...
| AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT PAINFUL, YOU ARE OK...
Richard Atkins | -
Don DeGracia | If you feel any pain, then STOP trying to
| project. ...
| Now, I do say this in the notes, but it is
| very...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | important that you all know this.
| And the point for bringing this up here is
| that I...
| recommend that those of you experiencing
| these...
| kinds of senstaions learn what kundalini is.
| This is...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | very important for those ofyou having these
| kinds of...
| sensations...
| Next topic:
| 3. What is lucidity?...
| At this stage, most of you are studying your
| dreams...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | or you are combining meditation techniques
| that you
| already...
| do with the OBE techniques in my notes...
| This is very good that you are doing this,
| but what...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | is happening then is that many of you are
| having...
| experiences in which you are SEMI-LUCID. ...
| Remember, the goal you are trying to achieve
| is...
| to be as LUCID as you can. Being lucid means
| that...
| your mind acts pretty much the same way in
| your...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | altered state of consciousness as it does
| when...
| you are awake. One sure-fire sign that you
| are...
| lucid, is that you should be at least
| surprised...
| about where you are at. THere should be some
| type...
| of excitement or surprise if you really do
| become lucid...
| at least the first few times this happens....
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | As you continue to practice, in your first...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | experiences your mind will probably be a
| combination...
Richard Atkins | -
Don DeGracia | of how you act in dreams and how you act when
| ...
Richard Atkins | -
Don DeGracia | you are awake. These can be confusing
| because,...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | when you wake up, you willnot know if you
| were...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | dreaming or had actually had an OBE. What
| you...
| have to do to overcome this is, when you
| wake...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | up and remember your experience, you have to
| ask
| yourself...
| this question: IF THAT HAD HAPPENED TO ME...
| WHILE I WAS AWAKE IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD,...
Pat | .
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | WOULD I HAVE RESPONDED THE SAME WAY?...
| When you begin to answer "yes" to this
| question...
| more often than you answer "no", then you can
| be...
| certain that you are having experiences that
| are...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | more like OBEs instead of dreams....
| It's very important to keep these ideas in
| mind because...
| what you are trying to achieve is TAKING YOUR
| ...
| WAKING MIND INTO THE ALTERED STATE OF...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | CONSCIOUSNESS.
Richard Atkins | .
Don DeGracia | Welll, gang, I've gone on a lot longer than I
| thought...
| so, I'm gonna blow off the fourth topic and
| open the ...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | floor to discussion.
john e. m. | .
Richard Atkins | .
Don DeGracia | So, the first question will be from Richard
| Atkins...
| Richard
Richard Atkins | Hello
Don DeGracia | Hi!
Denis | ?
Don DeGracia | Richard, do youwant to ask a question?
Richard Atkins | Can you leave your physical body when you are
| awake
| and have two consious personalities?
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Richard, I cannot leanve my physical body...
| when I am awake, but some people can...
| so yes, this is possible...
| When this happens though, I do not think...
| it produces two different personalities...
| I think what happens is that your
| personality...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | is perceiving two worlds at once..
| Richard, follow up question?
|
Richard Atkins | WOW
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Anything else Richard?
Richard Atkins | What is the easiast way to project?
Don DeGracia | Well, I don't have tim eto answe this in any
| detail here...
| I wrote a 140 page file on the topic!...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | Have you downloaded this?
Richard Atkins | I have had four experiances that were amazing.
Don DeGracia | If not, I suggest you do, it goes into great
| detail...
| on how to project.
| Richard, if you want to talk some more, could
| you write
| me a message...
Richard Atkins | OK thank you Don.
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | in the Dreams section, or send me e-mail?
| Thanks Richard.
| Denis is next. Denis .
Denis | Ok... What causes pain in kundalini
| awakenings? I've heard and read about this
| but nobody ever
| says anything about causes, or even
| *concrete* dangers... Just curious
| GA
Don DeGracia | The cause of the pain is the following...
| and this is just a rough sketch...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | What happnes is the kundalini is at the base
| of...
| your spine in your etheric body...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | When it gets "awakened" or released....
| it spirals upwards through the etheric spine
| and...
Pat | .
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | etheric chakras with very great force...
| Now, in the average person....
| there are a lot of other types of energy...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | blocking the etheric spinal passage...
| and what happnes when the kundalini is
| released...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | is that it literally burns through these
| other energies...
| and can potentially cause great pain.....
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | Some of the "concrete" dangers are the
| following...
| 1. You could feel great pain physically.
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | 2. You could get shkes, expereinces extremes
| of...
| temperature, and other physical side
| effects...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | 3. Even worse, it could potentially...
| expose your mind to etheric and astral
| forces...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | that the ordinary person could not handle...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | In the worst cases, one could actually go
| insane...
| Now, I have to qualify these statements so i
| don't...
| scare everybody!
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | First, these kinds of warnings are mostly
| directed towards
| people...
Richard Atkins | .
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | that practice kundalini yoga...
| not people that practice OBEs...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | the reason its relevant in the context of
| OBEs...
| is because every body is slightly different
| with respect...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | to what it takes to trigger off their
| kundalini...
| some people are very sensitive and even
| practicing...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | the exercises I prescribe in the obe notes...
| could be just enough to throw a sensitive
| person over the
| edge...
| Now, what is interesting with respect to the
| feed back...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | I have been gettting is that a few of the
| class...
| members have been reporting these kinds of
| symptoms...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | but luckily they are very weak and basically
| harmless...
| So, that's it Denis! Do you have a follow
| up? ga
Denis | No. Thanks. GA
Don DeGracia | Well, anyone else?
john e. m. | .
Richard Atkins | .
| Can yo help me on the Bio feed back question?
Don DeGracia | Sure, Richard, let's hear it.
Richard Atkins | Can it help
Don DeGracia | What? Can biofeed back help you astral
| project?
Richard Atkins | Yes.
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | I really don't know, cause I don't know too
| much about...
| biofeed back, but...
| I've read that using biofeedback you can
| control your...
| brain wave patterns, and learn to put yurself
| in a ...
| state of deep relaxation. Is that true
| Richard?
| ga
Pat | .
Richard Atkins | That is what I have heard. I would like to
| learn moreabout
| it though
Don DeGracia | Richard, I think if you could use
| biofeedback...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | to help you learn to relax...
| then you could use the ability to relax...
| to help you have an OBE.
| ga
Richard Atkins | That is what I am after.
Don DeGracia | Let me know if you try this and what happens,
| Richard.
| ga
| More questions? comments?
john e. m. | .
Richard Atkins | Does it get easier with each time.
Pat | !
Don DeGracia | Yes, it does Richard. Like anything,...
| practice makes perfect.
| ga
| Que mas?
Pat | changes in temperature, pain,
| kundalini sounds like meanpause
|
Don DeGracia |
| Actually, Pat, you hit on an important idea...
| and this relates to what we are talking about
| in e-mail...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | right now. But some modern researchers have
| looked
| into this...
| idea of kundalini, and it has a lot in common
| with ...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | hormone action. As a matter of fact, some
| researchers...
| have gone so far as to suggest that what
| kundalini...
| really is is an anti-estrogen responce in
| women...
Pat | i thought so, i started oob 1 year
| before onset of menses
Don DeGracia | or anti-androgen responce in males...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | That's interesting. I didn't have my first
| one till...
| after puberty. I was 14.
| Still, a lot of people think that kundalini...
Pat | slow starter don
Don DeGracia | is actually a neuro-endocrine phenomena, and
| has
| nothing...
| to do with occultism at all.
| The men are always slower than the women, eh?
|
Pat | This does not however explain
| the similarity in the other owrlds
Don DeGracia | What do you mean?
john e. m. | .
Pat | the worlds that i see which
| others have seen, it is iether real
| or a geneitc memory
Don DeGracia | BTW, just wanted to say that of all the
| occult ideas,...
| the idea of kundalini is the most amenable to
| physiological...
| analysis.
| But yes, you are right...
| these kinds of ideas do not take into
| account...
Pat | .
Don DeGracia | the *content* of the altered states...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | and the fact that the content is similar
| from...
| person to person, give or take a little bit...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | However, I think our altered states may tie
| into...
| our genetic memories at some level or another.
| ga
Pat | the "reality" is really irrelevent
| anyway
Don DeGracia | Yes, as long as the expereinces are
| meaningful...
| besides, I think its real anyway. Screw the
| people that
| don't.
john e. m. | .
Pat | Exactly
| ga
Don DeGracia | Well, does anyone else have any comments?
| If not, we'll end the formal part of the CO...
Richard Atkins | Have a nice night
Don DeGracia | and go informal, seeing that its 11 o 'clock.
| Thanks Richard, you too!
| Well, gang, its officially informal now!
| Ok, we can cuss now, its informal
|
|
Disclaimer: The file contained in the
box above or displayed in a separate window from a link in the
box above is NOT owned nor implied to
be owned by BeYoND THe iLLuSioN. Most files at BeYoND THe
iLLuSioN are originally from public Bulletin Board Systems
(BBS) which were popular in the days before the Internet or
from gopher, web, and FTP sites from the early days of the
Internet which no longer exist today. Essentially, all files
were acquired from the public domain in one for or another.
However, there have been occasions when copyright protected
material has appeared on BeYoND THe iLLuSIoN without permission
of the copyright holder. In these instances, we have and will
continue to remove the copyright protected file as soon as it
is brought to our attention. This can now be done using our Report Copyright Material form. Fill
out the form, and the webmaster will be notified of the
situation.
There are also times when files found on BeYoND THe iLLuSioN
have a real home somewhere else on the Internet. In these
instances, we will gladly replace the file with a link to its
true home whenever it is brought to our attention. If you know
of the true home of any of these files, you can use our Report Original URL form to bring it yo our
attention.
|
