********** 5/24/94 9:54 PM Forum CO
R 12 : *SYSTEM* | Switching to Dreams/Mind/ESP
Don DeGracia | Hi Pat!
Pat | howdy don, hi john
john e. m. | hi pat
| hi don :-)
| .
Don DeGracia | Hi John.
| John, have you met Pat?
john e. m. | no
Don DeGracia | Well, John, meet Pat...
john e. m. | has you (pat) been to the others (co's)?
Pat | hi john :>
Don DeGracia | Pat, this is John, a good friend of mine and
| fellow
| theosophist.
john e. m. | .
Pat | yes, i have been to some co's,
Don DeGracia | Well, we have afull house tonight!
Pat | missed you 1st one on the 10th
Hutch | Hi Don!
Don DeGracia | Hi Hutch!
john e. m. | i think everyone is watching startrek? when
| is it on - on the central/pacific etc.?
Don DeGracia | I'll bet that's it!
Pat | thought that was next sat
Hutch | Last night, here in San Francisco.
john e. m. | it just finished here. taped three hours worth
Don DeGracia | Wow!
| Well, Pat, you gonna run the clas tonight?
Pat | where are you, don and john?
Don DeGracia | I'm in Detroit, and you?
john e. m. | 1 hour behind the scenes preview and the 2
| hour movie. (I'm in Charlotte EST)
Pat | no way jose---madison wis
Don DeGracia | Hey, John, isn't Mike Grenier up in Wis?
john e. m. | he is in Minneapolis I think!
Don DeGracia | Well, should we get strated?
| Started?
john e. m. | sure
| .
Penny | <---Walks in late.
Mark Doblekar | Heloo everyone.
Pat | yuppo
Don DeGracia | Hi all.
john e. m. | don is moderating
Don DeGracia | Yes, everybody, Rilla has relinquished her
| gavel to me...
| for the rest of the COs.
| So, we will continue to follow the formal CO
| procedure...
| Ok, so tonight, the the lesson is...
| Using dreams as a means to astral project...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | First, I've a quick preliminary remark, then
| the...
| usual introductory statements summarizing
| this weeks...
| material, and then q$a....
| Prelim remarks: A lot of people are getting
| a great...
| start on projecting...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | there are a lot of good messages on the
| Dreams...
| section right now, so I would suggest those
| of you...
| interested check them out...
| Remeber that you can search the msgs easily
| using AP...
| as a search term...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Also, feel free to pcik each others brains
| too...
| Now, important points for this week...
| 1. Record your experiences! ....
| 2. To use dreams as a means to astral
| project...
| you have to recognize that your dreams are....
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | REAL EXPERINECES....
| Dreams are DIFFERENT than your physical
| waking life...
| but they are just as real...
| You have to begin to identify with the you
| that is the...
| actor inyour dreams...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | 3. Dreams are unconscious astral projections
| and...
| astral projections are conscious dreams...
| 4. The idea of using dreams as a means to
| project...
| involves TAKING YOUR WAKING MIND INTO YOUR
| DREAMS...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | 5. You want to create a CONTINUITY OF
| MEMORY...
| BETWEEN YOUR WAKING AND DREAM MINDS...
| 6. There is a SPECTRUM of awareness
| between...
| dreams and astral projections. They are not
| seperate
| things...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | but the two ends of a continuum...
| and finally, 7. Things you can do to project
| from...
| dreams:...
| A) Work to remeber your dreams...
| B) Condition yourself to become lucid while
| dreaming...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | by looking for anything that can trigger you
| to ...
| become lucid..
| C) Built the desire to project...
| D) Do the excersies I put at the end of FILE
| 4...
| in the class notes...
| So, that's it, for a broad overview of this
| week's topic...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Let's up up the floor to comments and
| questions...
| anybody!
Sheila | ?
Don DeGracia | Sheila, GA.
john e. m. | .
Sheila | Don, you said that ...
| you can't go into the physical...
| world during a projection...
| But i think I did that once...
| I saw myself meditating...
| I was above watching...
john e. m. | .
Sheila | Everything was crystal clear...
| What was happening? ga
Don DeGracia | Sheila, this has been a persisent question...
| since the class has begun..
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | What you describe is very common...
| many projectors experience this...
| and near death expereinces are like this...
| However, I do not believe that you are ...
| directly percieving the physical plane...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | what I believe to be happening in these
| circumstances...
| in that one is percieving etheric subplanes
| ...
| that are "shaped" in the form of the
| physical...
| plane, and thus mirror events occuring on
| this...
| plane...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | This kind of theory...
| explains why you get both circumstances...
| of people acurately perceiving physical
| events...
| during projections, or people NOT accurately
| ...
| perceiving events during projections, which
| is...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | the case with me.
| Do you have a follow up question Sheila
Sheila | follow up?
Don DeGracia | Go !
Sheila | I knew a woman...
john e. m. | .
Sheila | who saw a friend on the other coast from
| her...
Lunar Beam | whats going on in here?
Sheila | come to her room in the middle of the night...
| He spoke to her and...
Lunar Beam | discussion?
Don DeGracia | Robert Monroe describes doing this too...
Sheila | the next day she called him and...
john e. m. | .
Sheila | in fact he said he had deliberately come to
| her...
| How do you explain this?...ga
Don DeGracia | Again, Sheila, there are numerous reports of
| this...
| kind of thing happening during projections...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | however, they do not occur in any
| consistent...
| pattern so that one could say that
| projections...
| always and accurately give physical
| information...
| I am not saying such occurances are
| impossible...
| because you just described one!
| However, they are the exception and not the
| rule...
| as far as my personal OBEs have gone.
|
Sheila | Thanks.
Hutch | ?
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Sure Sheila.
| Hutch GA.
Hutch | Don, pardon me for reading ahead ...
| but I've noticed in your notes that your
| personal ...
john e. m. | .
Hutch | AP experiences seem much different ...
| than those described in LD books I've read ...
| in that you seem to take on more the role ...
| of "explorer" rather than "controller" in the
| ...
| dream state. My question is ...
john e. m. | .
Hutch | do you feel this affects the "quality" ...
| of ones' lucid dreams? It seems that ...
| an "explorer" is much closer to my normal ...
| dreams, yet I don't feel at all lucid. GA
Don DeGracia | Well, Hutch...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | being lucid is, as I experience it...
| and as I try to describe in the notes...
| is that it is ME over there in the dream...
| world....
Lunar Beam | cool
john e. m. | .
Lunar Beam | Hi all
Don DeGracia | I am fully aware that I am Don, and have a
| life...
| here in the physical palne..
Lunar Beam | yep...have you ever reached the Budhic plane?
Hutch | .
Don DeGracia | This is what i mean by "lucid"...
Jeff W. | !
Don DeGracia | because I am not in this world...
| that is why I am an "explorer"..
| Does that make any sense Hutch?
john e. m. | .
Hutch | Yeah! Since I haven't had ...
| a "lucid dream" yet I'm still trying to
| understand ...
| Part of my problem in becoming lucid, ...
| I think, is that in my dreams ...
| I really do seem to be "myself", ...
| doing pretty much whatever I feel like. ...
| I don't seem to care much when ...
| weird things happen to me. GA
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Hutch, are you aware that you are in the
| dream...
Lunar Beam | ?
Don DeGracia | world? AAnd are you fully aware of your life
| in this...
| world when you dream?
| Hutch.
john e. m. | .
Hutch | Dream world - no, real world ...
| I always thought, yes! Maybe the real answer
| ...
| is "no". That could be a good tip. GA
Don DeGracia | Hutch we can talk more about this on the msg
| boards..
Hutch | Yes - Thanks Don!
Don DeGracia | to help give you a better sense of what its
| liek being ...
| lucid in the dream...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Ok, Lunar Beam, GA.
Lunar Beam | I am having trouble projecting! I did it
| twice by accident but now i can't do it
Don DeGracia | Well, here's what i suggest Lunar...
Lunar Beam | ok
Don DeGracia | can you write me a letter either on...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | e-mail or on the Dreams message board...
| telling me about your expereinces....
Lunar Beam | me?
Don DeGracia | and once i know more aobut your expereinces...
Lunar Beam | ok...
Don DeGracia | maybe we can figure out how you can project
| again...
Lunar Beam | brb
Don DeGracia | Is that ok?
|
Hutch | I think Lunar has left us . GA
john e. m. | i think L.B. has brb'd
Don DeGracia | Ok.
john e. m. | probably should move on.
Don DeGracia | Well, next?
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Pat, you want to add anything to all this?
Pat | no, but i belive jeff had a ? (hi
| Jeff)
Jeff W. | ?
Don DeGracia | Oh! Jeff
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | Hi Pat.... ....
| Don, I read someplace...
| and I can only assume that it was in the
| theosophical..
| lititure, that the etheric body can not
| seperate from
| the physical...
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | I'm just wondering if you ever heard this?
Don DeGracia | Well...
|
| I have heard that the etheric...
| can seperate from the physical...
PATRICIA ESTEP | Hello. WhoHello.
Don DeGracia | in the theosophical literature....
| this is how they describe how mediumship
| occurs...
| What the theosophists do describe is that it
| is...
| unhealthy to do this...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Now, in terms of projecting...
| I frankly do not know for sure if that
| paralyzed...
| or lethargic state is indeed the use of the
| etheric...
| body or not...
PATRICIA ESTEP | Fascinating
Don DeGracia | but I feel it is a useful distinction to make
| anyway...
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | !
Don DeGracia | because this state is clearly different from
| the normal...
| dream or OBE states where one freely moves.
|
| Jeff, follow up?
Jeff W. | Until you started talking about it...
| I was assuming that the etheric could not
| project...
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | and that experiences of "near physical", and
| such
| were low astral exp.s...
PATRICIA ESTEP | It !/exit
Jeff W. | I do like your idea though, it helps explain
| some
| things.
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | like the paralysis.
| Don...
Sheila | ?
Jeff W. | sometime I want to get into this more...
| about the question of whether it's possible
| to see...
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | or effect the physical from the astral or
| etheric.
| Done.
Don DeGracia | Well, Jeff...
| another implication to the distinction ...
| between etheric and astral...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | ties into what Sheila asked about
| perceiving...
| physical events...
| I think that "etheric projections" can give...
Jeff W. |
Don DeGracia | at least to some degree of accuracy...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | information about the etheric..
| or at least I'm willing to be sold on the
| idea....
| for intelelctual reasons .
| Sheila.
Sheila | Jeff,what does low astral mean? ga
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | Sheila>...
| by low astral I mean a lower subplane of the
| astral
| plane....
| this is closer in "vibration" to the
| physical, and so in
| theory...
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | (my theory) it might be possible to see, or
| effect...
| the physical from there. Kind of a reverse
| claivoience (sp?).
Sheila | Then this doesn't have anything to do with
| paralysis?
Don DeGracia |
Jeff W. | It's also where the "nasties" hang out.
|
Don DeGracia | If I can put my 2 cents worth it ...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Sheila, the paralysis is due to the fact
| that....
| your body has fallen asleep, but your mind
| has not...
| but you rmind still can sense the body to
| realize it...
| is paralyszed. This is something that ....
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | even neurophysiologists know about....
| However, what they do not know is that a
| person...
| can be conscious in this state too...
| And when you are conscious in this state....
| I call that being in the "etheric plane"...
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | Now, with the idea of the astral plane...
| this is when you have totally lost touch with
| any...
| sense of your physical body at all....
| like in your dreams for example....
| and are in the place I refer to in the notes
| as the...
| OBE realm...
Janice | HI Jeff I showed up aren't u proud.G>
Don DeGracia | But the sometmes confusing part....
| is that these two states may overlap a little
| bit...
| none of this is cut and dry....
Lunar Beam | i'm back
Don DeGracia | and even expereinced projectors like Jeff and
| I...
| are constantly struggling to get some
| handle...
| on making sense of all this.
john e. m. | .
Lunar Beam | hi aNNA
Sheila | Thanks jeff, and Don.
Anna | hi Lunar
Don DeGracia | Sheila, floow up?
Sheila | yes, done. ga
Lunar Beam | hey anna send me a p-message
Don DeGracia | Well, gang, its 11 PM...
| I think we should close the formal CO...
| I want to thank you all for showing up and
| particiapting..
john e. m. | .
Don DeGracia | and wish you continued success with your
| practices.
| End of formal CO...
| Let the party begin
Jeff W. | Wow, Don that was great!
| Glad I could make it for part of it.
Janice | I finally make it to a
| CO and it ends
Jeff W. | Oh, Janice! Maybe next time!
Don DeGracia | Janice :(
| Thanks Jeff!
Hutch | ?
john e. m. | .
Janice | sorry Don
Lunar Beam | ?
Jeff W. | Hutch, Lunar. It's not formal now so just
| blurt out your
| questions!
Hutch | I see I'm in the company of experienced
| projectors!
Jeff W. | It's a free-for all!
Lunar Beam | ok... hey Don will ya chat wit me
Hutch | Any word on how long it took to get there?
Don DeGracia | Yi!!!
john e. m. | .
Hutch | I've been trying diligently for a couple
| months ...
Don DeGracia | Lunar, where are you from?
Lunar Beam | HOUSTON,TX
Jeff W. | Hey, we should all thanks John for putting
| in all
| those periods to keep the CIM folks from
| locking up.
Janice | Jeff> where Donna and Paul been?
Don DeGracia | Hutch, it took me about a month for my first
| one.
Hutch | thansk john e.m.
Peggy | 'p
| %j$KC\ra5+7Ugwe&
Lunar Beam | it keeps it from locking up?
john e. m. | .
Hutch | were you conciously trying for it Don?
Don DeGracia | Thanks John!
| Yay!
Jeff W. | Yes, there's a bug in the CIM software.
Lunar Beam | than x
Don DeGracia | John
john e. m. | tough job!!
Pat | thanks john
Don DeGracia | Yes, I was Hutch.
Lunar Beam | .
Jeff W. | John> the little finger must be getting
| tired!
Hutch | I think on a bell curve, I'm right around a
| "D"
Jeff W. | Hutch, how long have you been trying?
john e. m. | .
Hutch | a couple months now -
Jeff W. | You will succeed. It's take time to sink it
| into the
| subconscious.
Lunar Beam | i am having trouble AP... i keep levitating
| by accident... anybody else have this happen?
| .
Hutch | I think I'm close!
Don DeGracia | I think you are too Hutch.
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | Hutch, are you trying to project via the
| trance state,
| or though a dream (lucid dreaming)?
Don DeGracia | Lunar, are you sleeping when you levitate?
Lunar Beam | ..............................................
| .........................
Hutch | I'm trying both!
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | I've had hundreds of "lucid dreams", but only
| a
| handful of waking to OB experiences.
Lunar Beam | i am in a deep state of relaxation... i can
| do it willing ley... it just happens
| sometimes when i am trying to project
Hutch | Jeff> I just read I should try the trance in
| the early morning.
Jeff W. | Hutch> The reason that time is good..
Don DeGracia | Lunar, I think you are astral projecting when
| you levitate.
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | is that by then your mind is rested, but your
| body is
| still very relaxed...
| it takes an awake mind, and a _very_ realaxed
| body.
Lunar Beam | no, it is physcical levitation... i have had
| people talking me through it and my physical
| body rose
Hutch | Jeff > aha! I think I tend to think too
| much ...
Jeff W. | Lunar> WOW!
Don DeGracia | Who was talking to you Lunar?
Hutch | ... probably not very relaxing.
| ,
john e. m. | .
Hutch | .
| .
| Must drop out. Thanks all!
john e. m. | .
Jeff W. | Bye all, I've got to go answer some messages.
Don DeGracia | Ok Hutch, we'll see you later!
john e. m. | bye jeff!
Don DeGracia | Take care too Jeff, thanks for droppin by
| both of you!
Pat | ,bye jeff
john e. m. | is everyone still ok? no one locked up?
Jeff W. | Be lucid.
Don DeGracia | You did great John!
john e. m. | thanks !!
| .
Pat | nite all, good luck in you
| endeavors!
john e. m. | bye Pat -- nice meeting you!
| well ... not much left here... any more
| questions??
Don DeGracia | Nope, lets call it a night.
john e. m. | ok
| by all!
Don DeGracia | Bye!
********** 5/24/94 11:25 PM Forum CO
|
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