Area : I_UFO-S
Date : Oct 09 '95, 17:22
From : Paul West, 2:254/284.4
To   : All
Subj : Reply To Alien Harvest


 Frm: (Paul West) Paul.West@f284.n254.z2.fidonet.org
 For: All
 Org: Psychonautica BBS, London. (2:254/284.4)


Howdy folks, thought I'd throw some comments into this little number.

> Among the mysteries of modern ufology is the origin of the entities
> known as the Greys.

Even though there may be no real link between UFOlogy and abductions,
but never mind eh.

> These small beings are the most commonly observed entities reported
> by abductees aboard extraterrestrial craft,

They are `entities' observed by most abductees, and they shapeshift,
so you can't really say that their `grey' form is static. Many
abductees have reported about the greys turning into balls of light,
changing into humans, etc. There is no real evidence outside of the
abductions which portrays to the physical existence of the greys, and
the entire thing is essentially subjective.

The UFO craft are also mostly subjective, or creations of mind
projectected into the pseudo-objective reality.

> and are believed to be the ones most responsible for human
> abductions.

They are the ones most often seen, yet they do not always take on the
same form.

> There are many things that we do know about the Greys, derived
> mostly from abductee reports,

As far as I know, there is NO evidence WHATSOEVER outside of abductee
reports regarding the greys.

> but there is far more that we do not yet know or understand. Using
> the evidence at hand, including a collective of abductee reports and
> stolen government files, it is now possible to make accurate
> estimates of several aspects of the lives of the Greys, including
> physiological and mental aspects.

Would this person be honestly stating that he has access to stolen
government files, in public?

>     The Majestic Twelve:
>     One of the currently held beliefs about the Greys is that they
> are connected somehow to the United States government, and that this
> intimate relationship has resulted in many of the technological
> leaps of the last fifty years made by military and government
> science, including the F-117

Possibly, but even government reports cannot really be trusted as
sources for this information. Any trust you place in a person is
totally based upon your OWN created subjective viewpoint of that
person, and with enough such personal persuasion you could even ask
that Mother Teresa is an alien.

> stealth fighter and B-2 stealth bomber, as well as a weapons systems
> know as Joshua, a ulrasonic weapon, of which a recently declassified
> research-wave study variant was displayed to the public. The theory
> goes

Cannot we produce such things with our own technology? After all, the
public at large has barely even a notion of how science works, and
even the most prominent specialists may know very little of other
areas of research going on. Most people haven't really got a clue what
the real level of technology is because their subjective perception is
derived almost totally through commercial application of such
technology, and not through industrial and other applications.

> something like this: A secret group within the government (know as
> the Majestic Twelve, or the Jason Society, or the Jason Scholars)
> has given

Here we go with the recital derived from numerous rumours.

> the Greys several large tracts of land in the American Southwest,
> near the Four Corners area, on which to build large underground
> bases, know as DUMBs (Deep Underground Military Bases).

These greys are entities with control over their very form, they can
arrive on the scene with no physical transportation, they can induce
all sorts of things through mind power, and yet they need earth-bound
`bases' from which to operate? I should think that the physical
reality of UFOs and entities isn't the commonplace state to find them
in, it is our prolonged subjective experience of a solid reality which
brings about such biased notions. Instead, why not look to seeing the
physical reality as a rarity and seeing a non-physical transfer into
physical states as merely symbolic and yet more of the `experience'
process.

> From these locations, the Greys are able to abduct their targets
> with much more ease and less observability than they would otherwise
> be able to do, resulting from a

I think that warrants a `garbage' label. They most certainly do NOT
require solid UFO's to get here, they can arrive at any time they want
from thin air if necessary, and most UFO craft experienced by
abductees are NOT usually witnessed by others.

The reason for the greys `solidifying' into a perceivably real state
is further to the whole purpose of the operation - experience to mould
our very makeup. They do not desire to `hide out' underground so as
not to be seen, because if they DO get seen it is almost certainly
INTENDED, again the physical situation has been taken as standard.

> closer location to the abduction sites, thus resulting in decreased

That's a totally NAFF viewpoint, because abductions occur all over the
planet and a central position would not aid their `targeting' any
better.

> flight time, which translates to less time available for detection
> by others.

Flight time? Their UFO craft are more likely propelled by the mind and
an [almost] infinite energy source, and `flight time' doesn't exactly
come into it when you can arrive on the scene out of nowhere without
any real warning.

>     This is known as the 'Alien-United States Government
> Technological Exchange Theory,'

An interesting yet not necessarily `truly depictive' label. What
better way to propose such a status of the situation than to give it a
nice label which can embed itself into the energy-makeup (mind) of any
who repeatedly see or hear it? It is the subtlest form of
conditioning, just like all the rest of the government garbage.

> and is currently popular, in varying degrees, among many researchers
> and others, who believe that the government is constantly lying
> about its involvement in the UFO phenomenon, and is

It may be lying about its involvement in the phenomenon, yet this
doesn't go any where near proving that they automatically must be
working with aliens.

> keeping much information secret, while using disinformation tactics
> to make all eyewitnesses appear to be fooling.

ALMOST ALL disinformation is not created by the government or any such
elite force, it is created by the minds of the public!

> The disinformation appears in various forms,

A natural effect of a varied upbringing and development of personal
situations. Some might view aliens to be `angels', while more techno-
moulded persons might view them to be cyber robots.

> from government propoganda, lies about activities, and threats to
> silence witnesses, to the more vocal and outspoken of 'researchers'
> who attempt to convince other that there is no UFO phenomenon, and
> no such thing as extraterrestrial life. These 'debunkers'

It is necessarily `debunking' when you deny something? You cannot
possibly make an explanation for what any particular individual is
thinking, unless you have psychic abilities, and as such it is nigh on
impossible to tell exactly who is debunking or not just because they
do not agree with the physical propositions.

> use any explaination, no matter how unlikely and impossible, to
> explain any and all sightings.

Many of these `debunkers' are just on a personal mission to find the
truth just like everyone else, their `power' simply depicts their
evolutionary status more than anything.

> These documents do tend to point towards a 'secret government,'
> which controls much of what we perceive to

These documents DO tend to point towards such things because they are
not founded on facts, and in the realms of fiction it doesn't matter
wether or not you start out with logic.

> be our benefactors. Congress, to the best of our knowledge, has not
> been deeply infiltrated, due to the fact that the membes are elected
> by the people.

Or just because there IS NO infiltration?

> Congress's activities, however, do not appear to be suspect, except
> for the usual political logrolling and campaigning. State

Oh, surprise surprise. The place where you're most likely to find the
truth, and you actually do!

> governments are also for the most part safe from very deep
> infiltration, due to the fact that the 'secret government' must be a
> small group in order to remain secret.

Don't forget the underground cavers, cities, dwelling for deformed
beings etc... in which they can all hide along with reptile demons.

> The end result of such as large project would be:  A population who,
> as a whole, tends to concider any who study this phenomenon, as well
> as most witnesses, as 'crackpots and lunatics'; A group of trained
> disinformation agents used to keep the public's mind off of such
> matters;

As I say, almost all disinformation is spread easily and effortlessly
by the subjective realities of each individual telling the story. One
persons opinion can so easily become a social fact.

>     Beings of Light:
>     Another popular theory held be many involved in New Age
> philosophy is

And beyond...

> that the Greys are truly the benevolent race they claim to be, and
> that they are here to guide humanity into the next millennium with
> spiritual understanding of each other, in order to create a more
> perfect society.

That theory holds a COLLOSSAL amount more logical evidence and facts
than any of the conspiracy theories can attempt to do in unison.
People fail to realise that archetypes and higher enetities have been
developing as a result of the actions of our minds, and as such are
now manifesting a lot of controversial situations into these
abductions, including so called `rape' and pain induction. The whole
of the events which occur in abductions can be explained, based on
logic, to be a direct reflection of society today and the wealth of
`thought forming' which our evolution has produced.

> It also find suppot among those who claim to be in contact with the
> Greys, and claim to recieve information about what they are doing,
> as well as why.

It cannot really be distinguished enough that contactees are most
certainly much detatched from abductees, because contactees are
essentially channelers with a techno-twist.

> This information, however, seems to be too much like propoganda as
> well as disinformation to the author.

Blah!

> This theory holds that the Greys come from a society whose gene pool
> has become overly

So at last we get onto the SOLID theories as to their predicament, not
considering for a moment the overwhelming subjective content of
experiences which almost certainly cast aside `physical' bodied alien
theories.

> inbred or otherwise has become depleted.

Is it so wierd that these aliens are all looking much the same? These
experiences are personal, experiences usually by one person alone or a
very small group. Mass abductions are pretty much nothing to do with
the greys. The single person sees, perceives, and experiences an
altered state of consciousness, as if in a different sort of reality,
which seems to disallow theories that it can be objectively based.
Would it not suit better if there was ONE phenomenon which can happen
to anyone and thus it always holds the same sort of properties? The
aliens all look the same because there aren't very many of them? If
you shoved a few select people onto a UFO and sent them off abducting
people does this mean that there is a grand advanced civilisation of
cloned humans going around?

> It is somewhat similar to the old science fiction scenario, with a
> dying Mars coming to Earth in order that they can survive.

That's because it is skewing the borders between a heavily
subjective abduction situation and an equally subjective but
objectively based situation of coverups.

>      This theory is much simpler, as well as much more direct in its
> thought process, than the one above, and is entertained more by
> various group devoted to the spiritual and mental evolution of
> mankind.

There is much more logic in these entities being here NOW than one
might initially see.

> Supporters of this theory say that same Greys have spoken to them,
> and told them the reasons that they are here. According to these
> individuals and groups, the Greys are trying to help humanity save
> itself by saving the planet, because the death of Earth is soon to
> come, and tell of great storms, earthquakes, floods, volcanic
> eruptions, as well as war, pollution, famine,and starvation that
> will soon to sweep across the face of our planet.

That the viewing of information on board a UFO supposedly forms part
of the `objective' flow of such a session, it seems almost indicative
that the whole of the abduction situation is symbolic, when you
consider that these futuristic visions are not entirely real but are
greatly subjectively symbolic. As there seems to be no seam from where
the symbolism and subjectivity stop and objectivity starts, you cannot
really say that they are totally objective.

> The Greys claim that they know these things will happen because they
> aren't limited by time flowing in a single direction, but can move
> forwards and backwards though time.

Time perpetually flows forth, yet all of past reality remains embedded
in the energy of minds. When re-experienced in real-time, it makes it
appear as though you are in the past. You cannot change the direction
of time.

> While they cannot stop it,

They cannot stop it because THEY are a creation of our minds and our
higher being, WE control them, they themselves cannot stop it
happening because it is WE who are controlling the situation.

> they only want to prevent as much suffering as possible. While they
> are

Sounds like a direct manification of the general view most people
entertain into the collective mind - that they want to seek peace and
removal of suffering.

> here, though, they could use come of our DNA, bacause their supply
> has been drastically reduced, for a reasons rarely told to the
> contactees who communicate to them.

The contactees who communicate to them cannot properly be trusted
because channeling is also quite a subjective experience. Besides, if
I were to die today and channel to someone tomorrow, does that
suddenly make me 100% honest and likely to tell you the absolute
truth? Most channeling accesses the subjectively universal mind, and
as such most channeling to aliens such as the greys is based strongly
in the subjectively influenced situation of UFOlogy and all things
alien. DNA doesn't really come into it because their bodies are not
exactly biochemical systems, they are more in the realms of thought
forms.

> Analysis of Theories:
>    These theories both have their various sources, and both have

One has a source in logic and one has a source in speculation,
subjective filtering, and unproven `facts'.

> evidence that supports one theory, while detracting from the other.
> The

There isn't a great deal of reliable evidence on the side of the
objectively based cover-up theory because ANYONE can lie on ANY level.
The important thing about these grey-encounters is that they ARE
encounters, that they ARE experiences designed to further our
development. They are manifestations of our global karma basically,
and as such they greatly depend upon the personal karma of an
individual as to what that individual will experience. I was led into
thinking that my personal experiences were abductions by aliens,
because that is the subjective implantation caused by the subjectively
spread rumours, yet having now seen the logic in a more spiritual
source I now have experience of what sort of moulding the global mind
can have on an individual. Once you see one view you can see no other,
because our acceptance is based so much upon a digitally finite
reality where things work on a one-at-a-time novelty basis.

> author's personal views lean towards the first theory, due to
> several key points of evidence. Most of the evidence for the Grey-
> government conspiracy comes from sources within the government,

So let me get this right. The government is conspiring with the greys,
yet the government is leaking information which we can call
`reliable'? You might as well pull the trigger for them.

> and from careful observation and analysis of government activities
> over the past 50 years.

Ho hum, diddly dum.

> The benevolent Grey belief comes directly from the Greys, who have

It also comes from logic. Greys have NEVER told me (that I can recall)
that they are benevolent, and for a while I was really quite scared of
being involved, but in logic I found the truth, and in doing so my
experiences actually changed in relation to what I was learning, which
is the same that happens to all abductees.

> implanted into their abductees' minds certain instructions and ideas
> to give to society at various times, as they determine. Using the
> abductees as 'virtual recorders,' the Greys claim that they are here
> to 'help

Them being here to help is an embodiment of our call for help.

> The government files, on the other hand, claim the Greys are aept
> liars, and they are not to be trusted.

Which is an externalisation from the very people who have greated this
rumour - it is essentially saying that THEY are lying are not to be
trusted.

> This data comes from the few applicable documents gleamed from the
> military using the Freedom of Information Act,

And since when were ALL documents within the government authentic and
not created just in case such a situation might occur?

> as well as former and current government workers who claim to have
> broken their oaths of silence and come forward to tell the truth.
> Admittedly,

Their interpretation of it.

> the government is also run by accomplished liars, so it is a choice
> of whether to believe a totally alien group,

They are not totally alien, they are intimately US (excuse a possible
pun).

>     If the Greys are telling the truth, then we have little to be
> worried about, except for our own government, and the occasional
> abduction in the middle of the night.

There's not even a great deal of purpose in worrying about those
things either.

> If they are lying, them we are faced with a great dilemma: the
> people of the world are being manipulated without their knowledge by
> at least two forces, the Greys and at least one major world
> government, that of the United States.

Through the creation of the greys we are manipulating ourselves.

> Analysis of Reasons for Human Abductions:
>     From the various documents, informants, and abductee reports, we
> can

Which again is attempting to merge subjective experiences with
objective ones...

> postulate what the Greys are. There are many reports that can be
> found today, if one knows where to look: Some theorize that the
> Greys are

They ALL theorize! Even I am theorizing.

> descendants of modern humans from the future;

I do not believe it is actually possible to travel back in time as
such because as soon as something is perceived it becomes the mind and
the past only really exists when looking into that mind and
experiencing it. Any traveller wanting to go back into the past would
be able to go into this mind thing and experience the past, but there
would be NOTHING to allow the persons involved to also share that
experience. It is merely a looking, not a doing. They cannot come from
the future and manifest for our perception, because the future doesn't
truly exist yet.

> others state that the Greys are a totally different lifeform not
> related to Terran humans. This

They are related, but not genetically or whatever. They are spirits,
higher selves, guides, angels, whatever else falls into similar
categories.

> document will hopefully finalize the various theories, and weed out
> those hypotheses that are deemed highly unlikely due to
> contradicting evidence and reports.

I doubt it, because the document is already demonstrating a seemingly
unwitnessed application of bias beyond the authors control, which in
itself demonstrates to what level the subjective persuasion goes.

>     Abductions and Cloning:
>     First of all, the fact must be established that the Greys truly
> are clones.

Fact? They are not clones, as such. As they look mostly the same, does
this demand that they are clones, or that they have (based on logic) a
rather more highly developed civilisation where the shared mind
disallows personal signals to evolve, and instead works to iron out
boundaries between each individual resulting in similar appearance?
Because, after all, the body isn't only moulded by the mind, but the
mind is moulded by the body, and a shared mind such as they seem to
have would remove the wealth of individualism which has causes US to
have such diversity. As a combined unit, perhaps with no actual
seperation of entities but instead a single entitiy, their shared mind
would also work to share the overcoming of karma and as such balance
out all the differences which went to make the diverse.

> This is not a new theory, simply a modification of others that have
> been circulating for a while. There are several reasons why they
> appear to be clones, of one takes into account behavioral patterns
> and visual appearances, as deduced from abductee testimonies and
> other related reports.

Yes, but that doesn't mean they ARE clones.

    The Greys are abducting human males and females for the purposes
of extracting sperm, ova, and other samples of our genetic sequences
for reasons unknown.

As their nature is basically subjective, would it not be symbolic that
the taking of ova and sperm for needs which are essentially non-
existent seems to point simply to another element which breaks down
the things we've created for ourselves?

>     The Greys must be clones, and the best evidence is in the
> conduct of the abductions.

I don't agree. They may have similar appearance, but that doesn't mean
it is their real appearance.

> that genetic sequences break down and begin to have errors in the
> sequence after several generations of continuous cloning from
> clones, which is what many

But what's to say they are even entities which ever die and need to
reproduce?

> If the Greys have a similar genetic code,

It might be better to ask if the greys HAVE genetic foundation to
start with.

> With clones, however, the mutations, while small individually, will
> be copied from one generation to another, and as the number of
> mutations build up, the greater the chance of a fatal mutation.

If they are cloning, would they not have a model upon which to base
their creations? If so, why should that model change with time? These
genetic mutations ONLY come about if the source of the cloning is
replaced with one of the clones themselves, and there is no way to
know if that is the case or not. If I were cloning something I sure
don't need much intelligence to base all the clones upon a single
model which never changes. This is a ludicrous attempt to merge the
concept of cloning, which removes inbreeding, with the situation of
genetic deformations through inbreeding. Why exactly to they clone if
they inbreed? Totally stupid notion.

While the Greys seem to be able to successfully cross-breed their
genetic material with that of Terran humans,

Which is also symbolic of a merging between our current consciousness
and a higher one.

their actual knowledge of truly advanced genetic engineering concepts
seems to be lacking.

So they are advanced enough to even clone to begin with, yet not
enough as to weed out any problems? And they clone so as to remove the
need for interbreeding amongst them, and this cloning brings about
genetic mutations through interbreeding? What sort of a silly idea is
this? Cloning which inbreeds? What possible logic is that? If they are
clones, they do not inbreed, therefore have no deformities or
mutations.

Either way, it appears what the Greys don't have very much control
over the genetic code of the hybrid created.

Perhaps this is because there is no evidence that such hybrids exist
in physical form, but rather that the hybridisation is to do with the
source of our MINDS, not our bodies.

Thus, cloning from clones creates a dilemma that is fatal to a species
dependent on cloning as a

That is IF they are cloning from clones rather than cloning from a
single model. Would not they devise a method of cloning from a single
model BEFORE being able to apply their method to any individual? What
sort of idiocricy would warrant them to produce a system for perfect
reproduction with allows inperfection to seep in through the very
process of inbreeding which they are trying to remove? And would not
the cloning process itself be based upon growing organs, tissues, etc,
from a proven system of fresh source? And what even sais that their
bodies are material enough to need such a cloning situation, and not
simply to create their bodies using mind power?

> method of survival. The way that they propagate is also the method
> of their death as a species.

There is NO evidence ANYWHERE that these greys have `age', yet alone
death.

> However, it may be possible, with the genetic engineering techniques
> that the Greys seem to possess,

The techniques which they are symbolised as genetic engineering...

> While some may say that if they have the technology to do all that,
> why not create the genetic materials they need and repair their
> genetic code themselves without resorting to abducting humans?

Because they don't have genetic problems, and they don't perform
genetic experiments, and the whole situation is subjective symbolism.

> The answer is very simple, and is a matter of economics: It is by
> far cheaper,

Ah, what's the alien currency then? Zoozles?

> energy-wise and time-wise,

> reconstructing an entire, functional molecule, when there is a
> planet of six billion humans which do the job themselves, naturally?

Perhaps because they don't even do that?

> The strategic location of underground bases could make this far more
> economically advantageous,

Even though such bases don't have anything to do with them.

> but even a civilization that is FTL-capable, traveling from a
> distant star, wouldsave time and energy as opposed to massive
> efforts create a replicating molecule from scratch.

There is no evidence that they come from a distant star, that the are
bound by 4d-spacetime needing ftl-travel, or that time and energy are
even problems for them.

> While the Greys seem to be able to successfully cross-breed their
> genetic material with that of Terran humans, their actual knowledge
> of truly advanced genetic engineering concepts seems to be lacking.

Baloney. They can succesfully cross-breed two very complicated species
perfectly, yet their situation is lacking?

> Either way, it appears what the Greys don't have very much control
> over the genetic code of the hybrid created.

That sounds invented.

> If the Greys had advanced genetic engineering knowledge that they
> actively used to the extent that they appear to, then it would be
> plausible that they would be able to repair the errors in the
> genetic code as they appeared.

Yes, that is if there ARE such mistakes.

>      One possible explanation is that the Greys do not do the
> genetic engineering themselves, but that the system is completely
> automated, with

Or that they don't do genetics AT ALL.

> In this manner, the genetic engineering involved in combining both
> types of genetic code would be contained in a computer

Another human-based application.

> of some type, and would create a hybrid embryo from human ova or
> sperm, with the addition of Grey genetic material suitably modified
> to be compatible with Terran DNA.

Of course, just because people experience giving ova and sperm this
means that they /really/ do, and the whole thing is totally objective.
Right. People have ova taken, and feotus', and sperm, and bodily
samples producing scars, yet the scars have an almost psychosomatic
foundation, and the other things have no `proof' that they are even
used by the greys. Hybrids appear, but are they really the /assumed/
combination of human/alien?

> One possible method, which would explain the taking of both sperm
> and ova, would be the following scenario: The ova are modified only
> very slightly, to made sre of no compatibility problems with the new
> set of genetic code. The DNA from the human sperm is then removed,
> and replaced with the Grey genetic material modified to interact
> accordingly.

Anything that the aliens are bringing to the situation is MENTAL, not
physical. If we are supplying physical properties to them, yet they
come here quite to the contrary, where exactly is the foundation that
the hybrid are solid entities too? Where is the seam between the
subjective imagery and the `objective' imagery of abductions which
allows one to draw the conclusion that the aliens and the hybrids
aren't simply symbols?

> explain why the Greys seem to have advanced genetic engineering
> technology at their disposal, yet be unable to repair errors in
> their genetic code,

I don't know where people get the idea that the greys have problems
with their genetics just because they look mostly alike. They come
from a place which is much beyond our comprehension, it is an
alternative reality, it has tremendous paranormal properties and
activities, it allows these aliens to dematerialise and take on other
forms, it allows reality itself to work like a seamless hologram of
perfect clarity as though reality itself is being moulded, and yet
this is enough grounds to say that the greys bodies and the hybrid
bodies are solidly real and have a medicinal purpose?

They have these bodies, which radiate light, because they are light
bodies, and they can fly/float, and they can go through walls and
stuff, yet they still succum to illness and to `cloning', even though
there is no evidence that they even NEED to reproduce because they
might be immortal like the rest of our minds?

Take a look at the cloning situation seriously. You have two options.
You either clone from a single model, of you clone FROM a clone. What
sort of medical insanity would warrant cloning from a clone, knowing
full well (judging by their medical expertise) the effect? Would it
not be a much more prominent method, seeing as they can mould reality
and all sort of stuff, to simply create the body from scratch based on
a basic model, ie like building it out of basic pieces which are grown
from a single genetic model held in some kind of computer thing, or
the mind even. Their bodies are seen in physical reality only in a few
situations, and most such cases are not collaborated by witnesses,
because there usually are none. So their bodies are almost entirely
subjectively seen, so why should they possibly succum to a situation
of physical existence yet alone reproduction?

Anyone with a bit of sense would performing cloning to get away from
inbreeding, and as such it would be pointless to clone unless it were
going to be a gain, ie that it is impossible to inbreed problems into
the situation. Would not such a medically brilliant race of beings be
able to create a new body from a single model which never varies? And
their mind power leaves nothing to be desired, so why not just create
the bodies out of nothingness?

> They have either lost the knowledge sometime in the past, or simply
> used

Or simply don't need it because there may not be any physical
creations beyond a subjective reality.

> the knowledge that another civilization gave them, without
> understanding what exactly was going on.

When you need to introduce completely unrelated, uncorroborated,
unsourced, and subjective inventions into the picture in order to
explain what we do possibly know, you're falling further into
speculation and illusion.

>     Physical Appearances:
>     Other evidence comes from abductee reports on the physical
> appearance of the Greys.

The label of `evidence' is shaky considering the subjective nature of
reality. When reading `Abduction' by John E. Mack I was actually quite
surprised at how incredibly personal the events were, almost to the
point where, although they are based on the same things, are HIGHLY
personal and dependant on the individual.

> According to abductees and certain government informants,

Which is a clash between the accused and the accusing...

> the following physical profile can be deduced about the Greys:

Despite the fact that the greys often take on other forms, such as
human, and a whole host of other aliens, and don't actually maintain
their normal `grey' form during an abduction for very long, and that
they do this not through the creation of hallucination, but through
the moulding of reality.

> Their skin coloration is light grey dark grey and appears to be non-
> porous.

And glows from inside, and is semi-transparent, and is pretty much
weightless.

> The head is proportionally large and inverted triangular in the
> vertical plane.

Which varies.

> The rear skull area is large and rounded, and the eyes being large
> and slanted upwards toward the rear of the skull. The arms and legs
> appear to be very thin, with a neck that appears to be far to thin
> to support the weight of the head.

It supports the weight of the head easily because the head probably
doesn't weight much at all, if anything, because it is a light body.

> There is no genitalia visible on the ones that appear to be male,
> nor is there a pubic bulge seen through the clothing.

And nor is there always clothing.

> These reports seem to point to the same conclusion: The Greys are
> sterile mules, with no sexual organs.

The Greys do not need to reproduce because they are not `mortally'
bound by physical reality.

> Descriptions of Grey bodies illustrate their sameness: very similar
> bodies, with only slight changes in proportions, and stylistic
> differences being observed in their heads. However, even without
> sexual organs, the Greys seem to have gender, and are not simply
> neuter.

And the gender doesn't only come accross in the mind, it also is seen
in a slight subtlety in the eyes of the female.

> The genders, however, appear to be completely determined by the
> mind, with

Nope, they are not. The female is often seen to look more elegant,
moves a little more fluently, is more gentle, more receptive to
emotion, and has a physical difference in the `look' on the face, as
if kinder and more femenin (slightly more rounded eyes).

> Abductees reort that some Greys 'feel' or 'seem' feminine, while
> others are very masculine. This

Well, they got that bit right.

> seems to point to a time of sex differentiation, which was bred out

If they were physical. Or it points to trying to teach us that there
is so very little between male and female and that all of our
seperations between the two are caused mainly because of physical
appearance. So they're trying to teach us out of that, possibly the
result of our sexual biases and prejudices.

> physically, leaving only the mental pattern to demonstrate the
> differences between males and females in the Grey social
> infrastructure.

They females appear differently from the males, but only slightly. To
look at one of them seperately you can't really tell, it needs two to
be seen near to each other.

> It should also be noted that female Greys are very rarely seen, and
> are reported to be sterile and incapable of giving birth to
> offspring. The

They need not, that's why.

> males are the ones most commonly observed, and simple deduction will
> show that there is one scenario possible:  the Grey females are few
> in number,

They are not, but it depends entirely on the person being abducted as
to what sort of figure will offer most teaching or be best suited.

> Nevertheless, because Greys cannot breed naturally,

Because they don't need to breed at all, perhaps...

> artificial methods must be incorporated into their society on a
> massive, if not simply large, scale to prevent their demise as a
> species.

There is NOTHING at all to say that their species is going to be wiped
out through genetic cloning mutations, NOTHING to say that there is
cloning going on at all, NOTHING to say that they are even into
genetics, and NOTHING to suggest that they are creating the hybrids
for their own saving.

> Origins from Cetaceans:
>     Based on the evidence of their physical appearance, the
> following hypothesis can be made: The Greys are descended from a
> dolphin-like or cetacean-based life form.

Now we're getting wild!

> There are several reasons for this supposition.

It'll better be good then..

> The answer can be found in the similarities between cetaceans and
> Greys, using physical and behavioral aspects.

Even though the dolphins dont usually float through walls, use medical
equipment, and come picking up humans in their spare time.

>      First, let us examine the physical characteristics. The skin of
> a Grey is very similar to that of dolphins in texture, and in most
> cases, coloration.

No, I'd say its not. Dolphin skin is very smooth and shiny, the grey's
skin is matt and much less grey in colour, more sort of pale with
perhaps a grey-blue tint.

[Long cetacean theory]

Not likely.

>      There are also several similarities in the behavior of Greys
> and dolphins. Terran dolphins use sonar both to navigate and stun
> prey and enemies.

Which has NOTHING to do with the greys activities whatsoever.

> barracuda. The result was physical paralysis and disorientation.
> This

Ahh, so the greys use their minds to zap us into paralysis now.

> phenomenon is very similar to the technique used by the Greys as an
> aid to telepathic control of abductees.

And where do light tools come into it, blue lights, rods, mind-melds,
etc.

> The similarities are almost overwhelming.

/Almost/.

> Nearly every abductee states that when they are abducted, they are
> paralyzed by the Greys, and become mentally disorientated. The

They pass into an altered state of consciousness which creates a
paralysis.

> most striking thing most recall is what is known as the 'Stare.'
> This occurs when a Grey looks directly at an abductee, whereas the
> large, dark eyes capture the abductees attention immediately.

Yep.

> Abductees then report being unable to move, and a feeling of great
> mental disorientation. On some rare occasions, abductees report a
> lessening of these effects when a Grey looked slightly away from
> them. This clearly indicates that the intensity of the effect was
> directly proportional to the direction or focus of the front portion
> of the Grey head.

Absolute garbage. When they stare, they stare right at you, no half
measures or anything like that. They are very very precise, and this
attempt to parallel with dolphins is ludicrous, IMO.

> This evidence leads to the hypothesis that the Greys use a kind of
> ultrasonic sound beam in conjunction with telepathy to paralyze an
> abductee during an abduction.

Nope. These are all irrational hypothesis to try finding physical
explanations where there are none.

>    The 'Stare" as abductees call it, is merely the positioning of
> the

Do I?

> Grey's anterior skull area, he projection area where the Grey
> equivalent to the cetacean 'melon' is located, to achieve maximum
> beam concentration on the abductee.

This is ENTIRELY manufactured theory, with no basis in even subjective
reports, yet alone objectivity.

> When the Grey looks away, the beam would naturally become less
> focused and the effect would diminish,

The telepathic control is a 360 degree thing, which stays in place
even if the grey isn't looking at the person. It can be induced from
behind as well as in front.

> The description of the Grey's head is usually arge, triangular and
> rounded in front and back. This suggest a large and rounded rear and
> frontal brain lobe structure. This is exceedingly similar to the
> physical structure of a cetacean brain.

So? They have eyes in the front of their head, does that make them
human?

> large rounding is thought to be an adaptation of the cetacean brain
> to handle the enormous data flow received from echo-location and
> other

Echo-location? What? There is nothing anywhere to suggest EVER that
echo-location plays even the slightest element in abductions. There is
no sonar or ultrasound things going on, its all MIND.

> It should also be noted that on the rare occasions that abductees
> hear verbal sounds from Greys, it is described as high-pitched,
> sometimes chattering or staccato clicks or beeps. These are all
> similar to the air vocalizations of dolphins. While

They are nothing of the sort.

> the brain structure of the Greys has remained basically constant, it
> can be assumed that the echo-location ability of the Greys would
> have been decreased or atrophied almost completely. After all, there
> is probably little use for echo-location is such a society, thus it
> could have been bred out of the species during cloning.

Ah, so one minute they have it, then they dont. Similarly earlier, one
moment they are something they next they're not.

>     Due to no knowledge at all of the origins of the Greys, either
> as

Then why was such knowledge said to exist during the creation of these
theories?

> simply evolved cetaceans,

Even though they have very little in common.

> or as a cloned slave society,

Even though they may not be clones and appear not to be slave to
anyone.

> A few that might be possible are simple evolution with later genetic
> self-manipulation or manipulation of cetaceans by an outside
> species.

Yet more /assumptions/ that there is ANY genetics involved at all.

> Since there is no evidence, abehit no data at all, any possible
> origins theory that can be developed should be judged as possibly
> faulty, until more data can be gathered.

Quite :)

>      A simple explaination for the origins of the Greys would be and
> evolutionary process similar to that of humans, but from a cetacean
> ancestor as opposed to a primate an cestor.

Possibly, I suppose, but I don't go along with echo-location at all.

> At another time, the species evolved more rapidly, created a
> technological base of fire (not possible underwater), and created a
> complex society.

This has a clear foundation in many texts I have personally read in my
time, in which various irrational hypotheses are used as the basis for
further theorising. You need not necessarily have to learn about fire
in order to evolve.

> Some time later, the Greys either had a large accident or other
> event that severely degenerated its genetic pool,

If there are genetics at all, if they are clones at all, if they have
bodies with genes at all.

> or decided that the random genetic mixing of sexual reproduction was
> inadequate for their society, and embarked on cloning as a means to
> overcome their problem.

So the genetic problem existed BEFORE they even started cloning, so
they started cloning, and then the cloning was no good?

> After a period of time, the knowledge of advanced genetics, as well
> as the technology needed to created more advanced versions of their
> geneti machines were somehow lost,

`Somehow' doesn't sound too specific.

> This theory is supported by the reasons behind the abduction
> phenomenon, as is very streamlined, without involving other species
> as manipulators.

Sure, but it also has foundation in its own branch of creation, lack
of information and detail, and a flamboyant application of physical
reality concepts.

>      Another of the theories possible begins with a cetacean life
> form evolved on another planet.

  ;-)

>      This theory would explain the lack of knowledge of genetics
> that the Greys seem to suffer from, and why they can't simply make
> their own

So we're back to another lack of knowledge? First they do, then they
dont, then they do, then dont, do, dont, do, dont. etc...

> genetic code artificially more diverse. They are able to manipulate
> the technology, and use it to their advantage, but are unable to
> understand the actual theoretical aspects and operations behind the
> use of their equipment, thus resulting in a need for abduction of
> humans.

What kind of absurdity is this? They have technology, and they are
able to manipulate it, and they can use it for their advantage because
THEY created it, yet they are unable to understand the aspects of the
operations behind THEIR inventions, even though they must have had
such understanding in order to create that equipment to start with.
And this lack of understanding one's own technical equipment results
in needing to abduct humans, despite the highly evident position that
almost every single aspect of abductions has very little to do with
this process at all?

>     The final conclusions deduced from the evidence at hand is that
> the Greys were artificially developed either by persons or beings
> unknown,or by themselves,

Erm? Wierd! The greys were artificially developed by the greys?
Chicken or egg?

> and that the Greys evolved from a cetacean-like life form on another
> world.

Even though oceans of water might not be in place, even though
evolution would have taken a completely chaotic route and could be
nothing like the situations needed to create a form resembling our
cetaceans.

> A cetacean-like life form developed naturally on that planet, and
> either evolved naturally, or was accelerated in their evolution
> artificially though genetic engineering, and later cloning, which
> became their only form of reproduction.

This is pure speculation based on no evidence, subjective or
otherwise.

> Because of the cloning, their genetic sequence degrades after each
> cloning of a lone, thus leading to the reason for the abduction of
> Terran humans,

Despite the fact that the greys don't die, they all seem to be a
similar sort of age somewhere around the 150-300 years range, or in
many cases even older than a millenium, and that they seem perfectly
happy with their light bodies, because they are not diseased, nor do
they suffer from inbreeding problems because they create their bodies
out of energy using the mind?

> as a method of repairing the damage in their own DNA (or other
> genetic material), as well as adding new sequences to the cloning
> gene pool.

Oh well, another lengthy, serious, but outdated, irrational,
assumptional, predictive form of personal creativity. The things
suggested here have very little basis in the evidence from abductees,
and is so full of speculative hope that it is in itself almost as
subjective as the abductions.

People should concentrate less on the minite details of the abductions
and instead appreciate them for what the are - experience, especially
when the person making the theories has no experience of the situation
themselves. It might be important to determine the source, just in
case it turns out to be nasty, but there is just nothing at all which
points to any material, physical, or `solid' reality as being a part
of the proceedings.

Well, that's my opinion anyway. :)

Regards,

-pAuL-

MrWest@15.Shining.Conqueror.Co.Uk
Fidonet: 2:251/30.15,  Mercury: 240:190/16.15,  Searchnet: 114:3/0.4
--- GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Psychonautica BBS, London. (2:254/284.4)